European Muslim Hate Poll

[hollodero]

(02-21-2017, 12:35 PM)Dill Wrote: Well I take your point about the Hashemite rulers. I had not considered that angle. But I don't think that can be a major factor--though perhaps a factor--in hindering the spread of Wahabism. Iraq was Hashemite, yet turned out to be very susceptible to Wahabism or Wahabist-inflected politics--but after the US invasion.

Well, they were Baath before in Iraq, not so much hashemite any more. And they have a large shiite population.

(02-21-2017, 12:35 PM)Dill Wrote:   I think the reason Jordan is less susceptible at the moment is simply because there is less political unrest and less insecurity. Also, there is still very much the sense that Jordan is its own country, not controlled by Western interests.

Agreed. That might be the way bigger factor.

(02-21-2017, 12:35 PM)Dill Wrote: I agree with you about the Enlightenment/secularization problem, which is why I say we don't find the explanation of contemporary Islamist behavior Bill-Maher-style by looking at the Koran or Hadith or whatever text is proffered as the "clue."

Our Enlightenment was in great part a result of the collective European exhaustion with religious wars (80 years war, 30 years war, English Civil War) which promised little more than the utter destruction of all sides, though in the U.S. at least the Enlightenment is often represented as the result of philosophers persuading people to be nicer and, paradoxically, people hewing more closely to the message of Jesus.

I think the first explanation is more accurate.
We Europeans also are not often that sure that you even had an Enlightenment period... :) The US sure is way more dominated by Christianity, every presidential candidate has to be deeply filled with Jesus and such, which is one of the things we perceive as very strange.
Even Trump. I remember him saying that he gets audited so much because of his being so deeply religious. Or something among these lines.

-- Bill Maher, I don't know. I'm not an expert on Bill Maher, but his stances often take it one step too far for me.
(I liked his recent piece about republicans, though.)

(02-21-2017, 12:35 PM)Dill Wrote: That revisionist history may be one reason why people enjoy comparing religious texts to "prove" that Islam is somehow essentially different from Christianity when it comes to lethal, missionary conquest. They believe the US and Europe became tolerant because Christianity directly taught tolerance, rather than (as is in fact the case) because it did not.

Well, it is a bit different, compared to the new testament at least. The old one, that one is way more grim than Koran is (I believe). But there are as many Koran interpretations as there are Islamic splinter groups, it's hard to standardize.