I must be doing something right...

[Belsnickel]

(03-24-2017, 11:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  You are not pro-choice.  You are only in favor of pro-choice for the people rich and powerful to have choices.

Without government regulation there would be no "choice" for a safe workplace or a clean environment.

Do you think poor people not having access to health care is a "social" or "financial" issue?

This is the kind of rhetoric that really just increases divides and does not further any sort of genuine discussion. I would be someone that thinks the libertarian ideology has a level of naivete with those issues, but addressing it in this way is not going to win anyone over. Arguments can be made that the government's hand in the market has corrupted the free market system and that deregulation could cause corruption. That a free market with competition improves efficiency, innovation, and a host of other things, and would improve worker safety on its own because a free market for consumers also means a free market for employees. That it was the government's hand in the market during the industrial revolution that caused the issues we saw.

I'm not buying what they are selling on that, but there is an argument to be made there and so coming at someone with the rhetoric you're using is going to get you absolutely nowhere. Access to healthcare is absolutely a social issue. How that access is ensured is a fiscal one. The sooner we stop looking at things in simplistic terms and recognizing the complexities of the situations, as well as the fact that other people tend to actually have a reasonable, logical reason for their positions, the sooner we can get back to where we were as a country in the years between the Civil War and now, when the ideological divide was not so vast.