The OK case

[hollodero]

(04-04-2017, 11:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. Ownership of a firearm is a Constitutional right, so just having a person be able to say "you're not allowed to have this right" without you having potentially done anything wrong is pretty much not going to fly. Though a firearm dealer always has the right to deny a sale if they don't want to sell to you, for whatever reason.

Well, obviously that latter point shoots the Constitution argument in the foot, just logically speaking. If a dealer denies anyone a gun, he would violate the constitution. Every time.
Yet he obviously still can.

Secondly, there have to be certain conditions where you would agree that although this person is a citizen, he should not own a gun. Children would be a good example, or blind people, mentally ******** people, and of course people with a history of violence. Still citizens, though, still protected by the constitution, yet if you will stripped of their 2nd amendment rights.

Thirdly, it says "arms" in the amendment, but some arms are forbidden anyway. You could't own just any kind of weapon, say a dirty bomb, a tank, a grenade launcher, heavy artillery. All these are "arms", too, right? Which means there obviously is a line, the question is just where to draw it.

All of which combined shows to me that this amendmend is somehow open to interpretation and not that fundamental as it is portrayed. There is obviously nuance to that. And since there's wiggle room, I would argue that a licence does not infringe one's right to bear arms. You can, anytime. Just get the licence. And if you can't get it, you're probably not given a gun right now, either.

(04-04-2017, 11:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 2. Anytime you start talking permitting and the like for basic ownership, you are creeping into having a registry of gun owners, which is something that nobody want to allow to happen. They pretty much have never turned out well and as had been proven for awhile now, even if everyone was okay with the Government having a list of everyone who owns a gun, their data is hardly impossible to hack. There's been police stations hacked and all their officers personal information released on the internet fairly recently.

That goes with anything from tax returns to divorces and then some. All your returns are registered, doesn't mean they get hacked. Sure, it can happen. But then I fail to see why this is a problem with said gun registry (I see taxes or bank accounts hacked as a far bigger problem, and all those things can actually happen). So someone hacked gun ownership data from a police station, that doesn't endanger your gun or you particularly, does it?

(04-04-2017, 11:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Honestly, much like morals, speech, toilet training, and the like.. gun ownership/safety/handling is often the responsibility of being taught from parent to child.

Same could be said about driving a car. Still, licence.

(04-04-2017, 11:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I was shooting guns when I was 4 or 6. Ask me how many times I have ever pointed a gun, regardless of knowing it was unloaded, at another. Or how many negligent discharges I have had.

Well, I am strictly against infants holding guns in their hands, by which I do not want to offend the younger you. That is just dangerous. In general, American parents have the reputation of being very protective, and then you hand a gun to a four-year-old? That is one of the bizarre things to me.
And, out of curiosity I will ask, how often have you? I guess never, but I still ask.

(04-04-2017, 11:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Any of your suggestions really won't solve the vast majority of gun deaths in the US. Criminals still won't follow laws. Chicago has been making it harder and harder to own a gun legally, and it's not done shit for their gun deaths.

I think it might help a little, but in general I guess you're right. Your violence problem doesn't just root in easy gun ownership. There's a bunch of roots. Why America has so much crime and murder is one of the stranger things for foreign eyes, and I don't really know either. But I don't solely blame gun laws.

On the other hand, there's the Australia gun restriction example. By that I do not propose a gun ban, but it makes me think. From Wikipedia "Since the 1996 legislation the risk of dying by gunshots was reduced by 50% in the following years and stayed on that lower level since then." - Half the death count by firearms, no more massacres, that's something to consider.

(04-04-2017, 11:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: (Also, driving licenses are mostly about collecting money. Taxes, fees, etc. Hence why it's $25.75 to "renew" your license)

Now that is true here, too. Citizens get taken advantage of in the process. Still, I think a driver's licence is a reasonable thing to have. One sure can see that differently, are you against drivers licences?