The OK case

[hollodero]

(04-06-2017, 03:25 AM)Dill Wrote: Not sure what you think is BS.

That there are such difficulties. Not what you said. That didn't come out quite clear.

(04-06-2017, 02:26 AM)Dill Wrote: Not quite that simple. You would be voting in the same district. No one would notice you voted twice at the same poll?

Ah, what, worked three million times with democratic voters. Guess black people really do all look alike. - But aside from horrendously racial comments (I'm Austrian though, I'm entitled to do that), the technical answer for me would be, depends. If you're a breathtakingly attractive blone with spectacular breasts (are you, by any chance?), it might be more difficult as if you're the average Joe. As which you could wear a wig, glasses, some disguise and in crowded districts, you'd have a good shot.
Now of course, I agree, this doesn't really happen that often in reality, that is quite safe to say. So the real answer for me would be: Whatever. It still seems odd that your best protection against voter fraud seems to be "ah, it would at least be some effort" and "the fraudster would possibly take a risk". This is not strong protection and it's a pretty odd system.
And I don't say that to deny the undocumented mother or the disenfranchised ethnic minority voter, I say it because it is odd. Trump uses that notion, and there's a reason it works.

Of course, it also strikes me as odd how anyone could not own a photo ID, I said that, but it's hard for me to understand. Never mind travelling abroad, but how do you get bank accounts, loans, hiring contracts or whatever done if you don't have photo ID? Everyone has one here, no matter how modest the income. Not primarily for voting.
But that's how we vote, there are districts, there is a list, you go there, show your ID, they cross you off the list, you go to the booth, put your vote in an envelope, step out, put the envelope in a box and leave. This is fool-proof, simple, effective and not that hard to do, we all can do it in Europe. And I have a hard time believing that a similar system is impossible to implement in the US and instead you need your brilliant system kept in place so the black vote doesn't get even more suppressed. That is - just odd.

And my proposal would be to propagate that every citizen gets at least one piece of photo ID, doesn't have to be something fancy, expensive or something you need to renew every 10 years. Just ID. If you can't afford it, there can be subsidies for that, the taxpayer already handles so much, he can handle that. But no ID, no voting, that just makes good sense from a pure theoretical standpoint - and that is kind of true, if the response to that is "that is a racist policy", that's not a fair evaluation. I sure do see your point, but I would solve that by giving people IDs, not by lowering the safeguard at the voting booth. Granted, that's just me and I don't know the specifics, so imho.

(04-06-2017, 02:26 AM)Dill Wrote: A lot of work for one vote. That is why people serious about election fraud go for registration or stuff ballot boxes--nothing an id can prevent.

I don't know how these frauds would work, but requiring photo ID would make registration fraud sure a lot harder, doesn't it? One can always forge a passport, sure. Fraud will never be impossible, e.g. in the counting process, where trust always is part of the equation.

(04-06-2017, 03:25 AM)Dill Wrote: If you do not have a birth certificate, are elderly, and live 30 miles in the country, you have pay legal fees to create and verify documents which for which there was previously no public record. This will require legal multiple trips to the city on the right days at the right time, and you may have to pay someone to drive you. There are not a few people like this, but thousands.

The link I gave is a very good resource for these kinds of costs, as well as costs to states for implementation and legal challenges.

OK, that's my point, I just don't get why it takes multiple trips to cities, fees, challenges and whatnot. I'm sure no expert in these things. Maybe it would be a good choice to set an initiative to get people's status cleared, though. There is money for the 13th aircraft carrier and walls and nukes and whatnot, there could be money for that. That there are so many people with obviously no legal proof of their existence doesn't seem to be a good thing.
But honestly, I get a bit lost in these details. I gave an opinion, I don't claim it's the appropriate one, but I don't really want to dig deeper into that. :)