With Merkel's Foes in Disarray, Germany Defies the Trump Trend

[masterpanthera_t]

(04-28-2017, 12:56 AM)Dill Wrote: Masterp, if you look at the post above addressed to SSF, you will see links and references to a number of people and organizations "speaking freely and fearlessly" to those values you suggest they are blind to. Much of what you say reminds me of Sam Harris'--the assumption leftists ignore Islam, dissociate violence from religion, etc. He thinks that knowing Muslim "beliefs" which are unalterably anchored in unchanging, univocal religious texts, is a key to understanding suicide bombers, not "war and repression."  So there needs to be a "conversation" about these beliefs and Muslims need to understand what is wrong with their religion. In short, he does not know very much about the history of Islam or religion in general, nor about culture and cultural change in general. 

By the way, The link below should give you an idea of what produces leftist "defensiveness."

http://muslimgirl.com/17012/crisis-safety-manual/

Do you think there is any connection between people who treat Islam as a monolith, so that whatever you read in today's paper or hear in a Youtube presentation is what Islam "is", and the fear that so many Muslims feel while living in the US. Who are the people generating that fear? What are their beliefs about Islam? 

Why anyone suppose that defending Muslims from US bigotry means leftists are "blind" to "outrages" elsewhere.

I understand the challenges that the various Muslim communities are facing in the U.S.  I also understand that there is a political and colonial era influence in much of the politics of Middle Eastern nation states/ communities.  These are complex factors which require nuance (I hope at least you will understand the usage of this word in the right intent unlike the resident misrepresenter bar none).  Yet there is (or potentially could be) some aspect of the lure to terrorism from certain components within the "religious" texts (I put them in quotes simply because I'm not well versed in the differences between Hadiths and the Q'uran and the way different groups may interpret and value them).  A significant part of the terrorism is perpetrated by those who many would consider to be successful in life (doctors, engineers etc. at different levels of the terrorist organizational hierarchy).  Now what I'm attempting to inquire on is - what level of such behaviors is somewhat embedded in the interpretation of the religious texts, not just in the context of terrorism, but also many cultural aspects which if not anathemic are antithetical to the values of the civilized parts of the world? 

It seems I need to repeat this (not necessarily for you), but I am the same person who has argued that there is a wide variety of differences in the muslim world and to hold monolithical views are both ignorant and dangerous in many ways than one.  I do understand that given the current political context a question such as the one I posed above will be met with an instinctive defensiveness which I only deem natural.  However, is it not prudent that while acknowledging that the above mentioned differences exist in the Muslim world, that we delve deeper to understand the differences say between  Indonesia and Libya, or Saudia Arabia and Kosovo in terms of their Islamic beliefs and their impact on the cultural ethos?  And to further delve into why maybe we as a nation could judge the merits of the value systems of different countries before we just import them into our cultural fabric?  

When I speak of nuanced discussion, I'm talking about also including the views of our own Muslim citizens (whom in posts going back to last year, I've generally praised, just to provide some context), and to validate how they've (i.e. if they've) decided to extol certain values we hold.  This kind of talk would also address some of the ignorant prejudices faced by many of these citizens.  And again, given the lack of eloquence from the political establishment, I can understand a certain hesitation to delve deep into this kind of discussion from say the "left" or anyone more moderate if you will, but if nothing else this discussion would strengthen the understanding of citizens in the U.S and help us forge bonds within the nation.  If there are weaknesses, we must address them.  If there are strengths we must acknowledge them.  The simple fact of this inquiry at least lead me to learn a bit more in the form of the links that you shared, although I still feel they're not as well represented within the U.S.  But part of the problem is that even when "moderate" people of intellectual curiosity and an eye on overall security for our nation, can't even ask these questions before being labeled as violators of religious rights or bigoted fools, how do we truly understand how the impacts of certain ideas (the stuff that was surveyed in say U.K. and elsewhere) will be felt in our society now and going forward?  

The approach I'm talking about is not limited to just certain countries with Muslim majorities.  I think it's only fair to ask these questions of parts of Africa where Christian populations practice genital mutilation or violence against gays.  Or any other religion or ideology for that matter.