WAPO: Trump shared highly classified intel to Russians in Oval Office

[hollodero]

(05-16-2017, 09:20 PM)Dill Wrote: Some of us Americans see Trump's arrogance and carelessness.

Are you able to get Fox News at all? If you could watch a few segments of shows like "The Fox News Specialists" you would get a surer sense of the problem, which isn't Trump so much as the support, the alternative worldview, the bubble.

Their starting point is a conspiracy of anti-trumpsters who are trying to take down the president. 

Sure, I get that. I can get a hold of Fox News, I can livestream it, i can watch segments on youtube or their site. Ever since my country decided back in '97 that technology was indeed not dark witch magic and hence acceptable, we kept up. Don't ask football watchers from Europe if they can see your TV. We can.

So yes, I get "the Bubble", grasped the concept. I browse FOX some times, I even browse the comment section in Breitbart. You can add more accuracy to that picture, but in general the Breitbart crowd is the hard core. That the core is quite settled in an alternate reality where Trump is good and those who oppose him are Soros-payed devils is not news to me. I know similar cores in my country, and those are not people I would address, for there's no point. The FOX crowd the somewhat broader core and the rest of the conservatives partly the rest of the Trump defender. I wouldn't throw everything the latter group says into the bubble perspective or refer their arguments to "arguments of FOX, where truth is slaughtered." I think this picture is flawed, but I tried to make this point before and it didn't come out too good.

I guess many conservatives, many Trump-defenders would rightfully refute that your starting point fully applies to them. There are other details I see differently. As I said, recently I don't see as much a pro-Trump crowd, but more of an anti anti-Trump crowd defending the president. Who, in short, still are more annoyed by people like you than people like him. Now that sure is oversimplifying it, but that's how I see things. At least when restricting it to the somewhat limited horizon that is this message board.

Of course, I lose my sympathy now for defending Trump after that whole Flynn-Comey-Russia thing. Benefit of the doubt is good and fine, but a person only can get this benefit so many times. It's too much now. I believe that to be a rational argument, and I believe as long as I keep talking to individuals from the conservative side without immediately associating them with FOX bubbles, I have a better chance of a meaningful exchange. I hope people don't automatically associate me with a Hillary backer, a liberal, a democrat or whatever and throw me in that box, so I should grant the same favour and not throw them in bubbles either.

That doesn't mean I do not recognize the bubble.