06-16-2017, 02:22 PM
(06-15-2017, 01:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm not disagreeing with your post, but I just wanted to say that the world doesn't need to be full of moderates in order for there to be some civility in all of this. I have said before, I'm likely one of the more liberal people on here, but I am not partisan. If a Republican throws up a policy I agree with, I am all for it, and I openly criticize Democrats on a regular basis.
It's just a matter of thinking critically about the information you have and being able to present rational, logical arguments about it when discussing it with people. Being able to respect the opinions of others and discern opinion from fact. These things tend to get lost in a lot of discussions about politics, and this board is definitely no exception.
I don't see anything in my statement that indicates moderates are needed for civility in these types of discussions. My point about moderates is alienation. Someone from the right is overly aggressive, belittling or otherwise rude in stating their views towards a person on the left the result is the leftist is pushed further to their group thus even though verbally assaulted it reinforces their group mentality. Now flip the words right and left in that statement and it is still true. Moderates frequently face attacks from both sides and the nature of their views means they don't usually get pushed further into a group, instead they are further alienated. I didn't clarify that very well the first time because it isn't important to the intended meaning of the overall statement.
Talking about politics is important. Being offensive or otherwise aggressive about the views is counterproductive to that important activity. I do tend to do as your second paragraph says, usually. Hell, I even had actual discussions with FredToast where we disagreed but kept respectful with each other. But those things that you say get lost in a lot of discussions are becoming the norm instead of exception over the past few years (maybe 10). It may have changed over the past few months on this board but I see no evidence of it in the few threads I glanced at. I recall when PnR started on the original board. You were the first person I engaged in conversation with but there were many others that were capable of having a rational discussion. Eventually some of those people changed and those who didn't want meaningful discussion eventually became the only voices that could be heard.
You made a point about the current divisions being comparable to Antebellum, and that may be true. Unfortunately the only thing that seems to turn the tide back to people saying "even if we are different parties we are still Americans (or human if the discussion is among international people)" has been war. After the so called Civil War a concerted effort was made towards it. Following WWII most of the political leaders had a brotherhood of having served so even with political differences there was a bond they never let out of their sight. (oh yeah, those 4 terms for FDR were more divisive than most people know of now but why people don't know is too far off topic) I guess what I find disconcerting is instead of this shooting opening people's eyes to the need for national healing from the divisiveness we will end up seeing the same as the Giffords situation. Some people (but not all) paying lip service then going right back to the ugliness. And I saw Hannity and Pelosi both showing that ugliness while pretending to pay that lip service already. Probably others with national exposure have already done the same because some can't hide their true stripes.
