Leftists

[Belsnickel]

(08-23-2017, 04:12 PM)Dill Wrote: I agree with most of what you say here, only adding two quick points.

Authoritarian nationalism is not always fascism, though it may set the stage for it.  E.g., the Kaiserreich was certainly authoritarian and nationalist, but not fascist, as was Tsarist Russia.  I think elements of the US right embrace authoritarian nationalism to a great degree, but their anti-statism is also anti-fascist.

I disagree that fascism is not inherently left or right. Everywhere it appears, it is rooted in natural distinctions between human groups that "the left" always contests. All fascisms worship the state and subordinate the individual thereto in principle, whereas leftism (at least in its Western forms) retains the liberal valuation of the individual.  All fascisms also reject democracy to embrace some form of Fuehrer principle--a single leader thinking for the social body. I don't disagree that there have been socialist states which turned to fascism (NK being one) but that is a turn towards the right--away from the internationalism, racial/sexual equality, and democracy which characterize leftist politics.  If he pope starts praying in the direction of Mecca five times a day, he is no longer a Catholic, even if people still call him that.

I generally don't have a problem with anyone calling US politicians fascist if they know what fascism is and the terms of comparison are legitimate. But as a practical matter this doesn't usually go well, since people will often reject any analogy to fascism before looking at it. Also add that most voters don't know much about fascism except that it is a bad thing to call someone. Like the word "idiot" it has little specific descriptive power for most people.

I would agree with you in your description of fascism. However, in the broadest sense of the term (and the Wikipedia definition, which is about as in depth as the knowledge goes for many topics around here) it is a more neutral system. Because of this (and some other reasons I won't lay out in public) I am going for that more broad, neutral definition in an attempt to actually have a real conversation about the topic rather than what usually occurs.