09-03-2017, 08:50 AM
(09-03-2017, 01:04 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Whole lot of other sources listed on these as well.
Still a lot of biased people editorializing studies. No different than before. I know that studies done taking into account differences in positions and everything still show a wage gap, so the argument against the broad $0.77 to the dollar is true, but is ignoring a whole host of other evidence out there.
(09-03-2017, 02:45 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: By definition, if someone is working less and taking more sick days, they're not doing the job "the same way", which is what his point was. How does that not refute it?
You tell me where in the Obama proposal that got cancelled, it would measure every single worker's productivity, effectiveness, and efficiency in the country. Are we just going to employ half the country to just sit there and hover, watching the other half work for 6 months, grading everything they do? Then have that half of the country switch watch the other half?
If you think there's not adequate evidence now, then you're simply never going to find it unless you just make everyone work under 24/7 constant surveillance, and grade them all. This program sure as hell wouldn't have given you that evidence, it'd just tell you how much people are getting paid. Heck, I never even saw where it said where it took into account how much overtime they work, or how long they've been doing the job.
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If taking less sick days, and working longer hours isn't enough proof for you (somehow)... then here's the final thing I can provide you. Families and job experience:
Say you have 20 people working the exact same job, 10 men and 10 women, and we ignore the fact that the women would take more sick days and work less hours. In this scenario they all work the same amount, the same amount of sick days, and have the same productivity and everything. The job has 0 promotion opportunity, a starting salary of $50,000 and, fixed $2k pay raises each year. All the workers are hired at age 20, and any empty job spots will be replaced by a person of the same gender that left.
They all work 5 years, all of their pay is up to $60,000/yr.
Then 2 women retire to have a family. 2 new women are hired at the starting salary of $50,000.
Average salary:
Men, $60,000/yr
Women, $58,000/yr
Another 5 years pass, the original people are now making $70k/yr. One man leaves for another job. Two more women retire for families, and one leaves for another job. 1 man and 3 women are hired at the same $50,000 starting salary.
Average salary:
Men, $68,000/yr
Women, $57,000/yr
WOAH, salary different, despite them all doing the exact same work, same production, but when you average it out, the men are making 19.3% more than the women! Why? Because the men collectively have on average 9 years of experience, against the women's collective average of 6 years of experience.
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Obviously the salaries and raises and all of that are made up for the sake of the example, but it's based in reality.
https://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_303.htm
As of 2014...
56.4% of males age 16-24 are in the workforce. The same category for women? 53.6%, a difference of +2.8% for men.
45.9% of males age 55 or older are in the workforce. The same category for women? 34.9%, a difference of +11% for men.
People with more experience at a job, are generally going to get paid more. A doctor who's been working at a hospital for 30 years is going to make more than one who's been working there for 15.
Then you add in the factors of women taking more sickdays and working less time to the fact that there are more experienced men in the workforce than women.
1. Take less time off.
2. Work more.
3. More experienced.
If those three still don't convince you, you were never looking to, or allowing yourself to be convinced in the first place, regardless of proof or logic.
Not one of these things addresses what I was saying. What I am going to tell you is there there are studies out there that take all of these things you list into account and have still found a wage gap. A smaller one than the one typically cited in the media, but there is still a wage gap. A good study on a topic like this accounts for these things in their experimental design, and those studies are out there. There are also individual examples I can point to of this difference in pay from the government, from public higher education, no less.
This doesn't convince me because I have read more in depth studies on this from different sources. Studies that don't hit the media, that are relegated to the realm of academic journals that no one outside of the fields typically reads.
