12-07-2017, 12:20 PM
(12-07-2017, 03:21 AM)Dill Wrote:
Who initiated the war which seized Palestine and set about ethnically cleansing regions for Jewish settlement? I don't blame the victims for 1967.
I don't either, anymore than I blame the German civilians who were brutalized by the Soviet armed forces.
Quote:And yes, I do mean that we lost the minimal credibility we had before with Palestinians and other players in the region. That credibility was minimal because it exerted so little control over the Israeli side--though it had the power to do so. That is why "nothing since forever" has been achieved. And backing occupation and theft will only break the status quo in the direction of widening and bloodier conflict.
No, our credibility was minimal because we are seen by many in the Middle East as infidels, kafars. There hasn't been peace in that section of the world in forever, because the conflict is pushed by religious extremists on both sides. You ignore that, for many in the Middle East, Israel's very existence is an abomination that must be removed. There is no peace for them, ever. You're also ignoring that the Palestinians have been offered statehood in the past and have refused. You're also ignoring that the Palestinian's are closely aligned with terrorist organization such as Hamas. Hard to negotiate in good faith when one side has terrorists sitting on their right hand side.
Quote:I don't see anything particularly "reliable" about Israel or advantageous in our support for them. There was an argument for this during the Cold War, when the USSR was supplying Syria and Egypt with weapons. That rationale is long gone. Now they are our prime recipient of foreign aid and in return work to turn US foreign policy to their national interest, not ours. As I said above, Trump's move is consolidating world opinion against the US. In the Middle East, it will create precedent for common action and cooperation between Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, not what Trump wished for.
Quite honestly, I don't either. I also don't think letting them be annihilated by their neighbors is an option. Also, you last sentence is pure crap, none of the Sunni nations you mentioned will have anything to do with Iran.
Quote:Claiming that I secretly grant validity to a stereotype of Palestinians but "won't admit it," and then linking that stereotype to a larger one of Islam does not advance any point.
What "stereotype" are you referring to?
Quote:It simply repeats a technique and point of Israeli propaganda. Palestinians aren't upset because they have been driven from their land and forced to live under brutal occupation--their hatred of their oppressor is simply a natural consequence of who they are. The "we are infidels to them" is simply a reversal and projection of the charge you place on them.
Except you completely fail to acknowledge that it's not one or the other, it's a nice mixture of both.
