Manafort & the noisy Russians

[hollodero]

(12-07-2017, 02:09 AM)Dill Wrote: I am speaking of people who "simply have to know better." That is why I mention Trump's high end lawyers.

I don't want to dismiss your thoughts. And I don't see Manafort and Trump's lawyers as Breitbart creatures, wholly. They are right wingers, though. Manafort's career has been making dictators look good to US banks and government. Twisting the truth for money has been his life, and he was drawn to Trump like a moth to flame. He is operating in a milieu of people who break and bend the law, and aggressively characterize legal pushback as evidence the country and government are in the hands of the wrong (liberals!) people--think of Nixon's clumsy henchmen and the Iran Contra crew. These people have competencies, certainly, that lead to their hiring by certain types of political actors and control over large budgets and power, but at some point they act on their simplistic ideological premises and the world outside their groupthink doesn't work as expected.  (The last Bush administration fits this category as well)

Yeah sure, they are probably on the right, that doesn't necessarily mean they hold simplistic premises. I see Manafort rather as an opportunist then an ideologue. These types exist here as well, so maybe I'm projecting, but they usually just use some kind of applied polling and give advice on how to get to people; many of them could be in any party from left to right and just choose based on opportunity. Maybe I'm wrong on Manafort and others, I didn't quite follow these characters for years.
The lawyers... they're something else. No idea what's going on with them. Trump sure picked them wisely...

(12-07-2017, 02:09 AM)Dill Wrote: The list of "ueber obvious" stuff you relate above cannot be coordinated from a single directing point. Too many undisciplined players. I think it makes better sense to see direction in the multiple Russian contacts with the Trump campaign (which presented a uniquely pervious target), complicated by targets (e.g. Carter Page) displaying unusual initiative, and breathtaking incompetence among all the targets.

I agree in principle. It's just when the directive is "leave traces", then it doesn't matter that there are undisciplined players... it even helps them fulfil the task. No coordination necessary if you actually want to be seen and found out. Which I see as a distinct possibility, based on said uber-obvious stuff. "Breathtaking incompetence" on so many parts isn't a more plausible explanation to me.

(12-07-2017, 02:09 AM)Dill Wrote: Imagining a plan or directive in which Manafort is intended to be caught violating parole while working with people to whom he may be desperately in debt is a tad too far.

Yeah, but... oh, but... well... yeah you're right. It is. It just fits the strange pattern.