This Is How Democracies Die

[Dill]

(01-25-2018, 07:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Are you young? I only ask, because I've not seen any differenc ein the support Trump gets from other politicians than any of the other presidents before him got (since I've paid attention to politics anyway - about the middle of Clinton's 2nd term).

You never heard of Bill or Hillary Clinton? 
And the "other side do it more" argument is a HUGE problem. The fact that BOTH sides do it and to a significant degree is a problem. Just because one side is like 10 or 20% more corrupt doesn't make it better for the other side if both sides are hugely (or bigly ) corrupt.

All I'm going to say is that while it's true that Trump shouldn't call all news 'Fake', the fact remains that there are a LOT of 'fake news' stories from supposedly reputable news organizations. If news agencies would go back to making sure their sources were vetted, that their claims were based on merit, stopped rushing to be the 'first', and basically went back to being highly ethical, Trump would have no basis to call ANY news fake. Not that that would stop him, I'm sure, but it'd certainly take away from whatever credibility he might have left.

Three quick points here, Philhos:

1. I am not young. And I am aware of no other president, 51% of whose supporters thought he should have the power to override judges decisions, thereby tossing aside one of the essential checks built into our system.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/11/americans-arent-attached-democracy-rule-law
I am unaware of any other president who has so vilified and sought to undermine our intelligence agencies. Only one--NIXON--has villified the press, and nowhere near the degree Trump does. I am unaware of any president since Jackson who demands the DOJ be personally loyal to him and an instrument for prosecuting political opponents. These are exactly the kinds of authoritarian tendencies which undermine democracies, as described in On Tyranny. "Both sides" aren't doing this.

2. I have heard of Bill and Hillary Clinton, and neither has gotten away with anything like Trump's behavior.  Bill Clinton being villified for sexual assault long after he is out of office is NOT the same as Trump being elected in spite of it.  That is NOT--I repeat NOT--"both sides" doing it.  NO PRESIDENT has continually and spectacularly lied to the public the way Trump has--Obama tapped his phone lines, thousands of Muslims cheered the fall of the twin towers, 3-5 million voted illegally. What president has ever publicly insulted women's looks and mocked the disabled as Trump does? And his supporters don't blink. When has this ever happened before in the US??

3. There are no "fake news" stories from reputable news organizations. Fake news occurs when people create a non news site which looks legitimate and then posts something deliberately false, like Hilary killed Vince Foster.  If a reputable news organization overly trusts a source or otherwise makes an error, that is an entirely different kettle of fish. When fake news became a problem in the last election, reputable news sources began publishing primers on how to tell fake from real. Fox and Trump immediately started calling the other side "fake news," deliberately increasing the fog around the factual record with "alternative facts.' NO OTHER PRESIDENT in the history of the US has sought to characterize the entire Free Press outside of FOX as fake as Trump does.  And never in the history the Republic have so many of a president's supporters so blindly followed him in this. These are exactly the kinds of authoritarian tendencies which undermine democracies, as described in On Tyranny.  Again, both sides don't do it.

You say that Trump would continue calling MSM "fake" no matter what they did. That, in itself, should clue you into the major difference between Trump and every previous president.  Add to this his supporters would continue to support him, and you have to move beyond the "both sides do it" claims.  The country will never get back on track until a critical mass of voters understand what is unprecedented and undemocratic about the Trump regime.