State of the Union

[Shake n Blake]

(02-07-2018, 10:44 AM)hollodero Wrote: 1. You call me dishonest - nah, it's ok of course. But you read me wrong. It was Trump bringing up treason, not a question from someone, he said it without a need to do so, so what's this "he didn't mean it that way" all about. Don't use this word to begin with. And if you do, it's not a media narrative that these are divisive words. Implying the other side might behave treasonous (that is the mildest way to put it) is divisive. His hard-core supporters eat that up without nuance and Trump knows it.


2. Isn't that nitpicking a little. As for the black caucus, I'm not so into all the numbers so forgive if I got that wrong, but as far as I know black unemployment still is way higher than overall unemployment, there is no significant amount of lesser unemployment that didn't start way before Trump, wages still don't go up so the low-paid workers could finally avoid the powerty trap, and Trump didn't implement a policy that targets black unemployment specifically.

3. I do understand that Dems can be criticised for not clapping (I - honestly - don't care about Dems or Reps and have no horse in that race). But with measure. Words like betraying the country or treason aren't measured by a long stretch.


4. No it isn't. As soon as you start with lock her up chants and call Obama a sick guy (after claiming for years he might have forged his birth certificate and whatnot), go after the FBI and make a bigger fuzz about Antifa then white supremacists marches etc., you are divisive. One can agree with Trump or not, but the notion that the guy who does all that (and lashes out against anyone on twitter etc. etc.) is an uniter isn't convincing to me.


5. Ah... I agree halfway, but only because I guess that the whole racism cries are way exaggerated, something the "not-right" (can't call it "left") tends to do, I see it the same way generally. But speaking of lazy, it's a bit simple to blame all division on Obama. Only thing he did, as far as I know, was implementing or aiming for policies the right didn't like.
On the other hand, I remember McConnell and others flatout saying they want Obama to be a one-time presidént ant that there's no chance in hell Republicans would ever work with him, fundamental opposition was declared, and well that contributes to a climate as well. I couldn't paint that as black and white.

5.5 Same for Kaepernick. He did what he did for a reason, and Trump picked up the fight and had plenty of oil to pour in the flames, so the escalation is not on Colin Kaepernick alone.
 

Like what?
Working with the GOP wasn't an option, and that one, as far as I can tell, was not on him. You still might have a point, I just don't know the point yet.

This is already getting too deep for me. Don't you know I only dabble in PnR? Sheesh. 

1. I honestly didn't know who brought it up. Either way, Trump shoots from the hip and plants his tongue in his cheek often. He shouldn't have used the word "treason", but we shouldn't have a heart attack over it, either. He probably didn't know this would be made so public. It's not like he said this in a speech or in a tweet. He should know he's under a microscope though, and any bad words will be rooted out and put on full display. 

Saying that's divisive though? Idk. I wouldn't call it "unifying", but I doubt Trump being critical of dems for sitting is going to divide this country any further than it is or was before he took Oath.

2. That's really not the point. Progress is progress. And sure, black unemployment has been trending down since 2012, but many predicted Trump's policies would cause black unemployment (and unemployment in general) to rise, but that hasn't happened. The trend has continued, and I do think Trump deserves some credit for that.

3. Fair enough.

4. I never said Trump is a uniter. I just said he didn't start this division, nor is he the biggest reason for it. The left tries to paint him that way.

5. I'm not blaming Obama for the division. I'm only saying that I'm disappointed that - as the first black President - he could've done more to quell those tensions than anyone. As for what, maybe working with police while publicly stating that most police are good men. Not saying that if he had a son, it'd look like Trayvon. Perhaps he should've said "rioting and violent protest is not the answer" instead of staying silent.

The only quotes I read from Obama suggested that it (police targeting/killing blacks) really was/is a big problem. Much like with Kaepernick, I didn't see any solutions...just suggestions that police are bad, and there was no calls to stop the rioting/violent protests. The police in this country deserve better than to be judged on the actions of a tiny percentage of officers. Words from Obama could've done much to ease the tensions and stop the violence. Unfortunately, those words never came.

5.5. The added oil came from a great increase in players kneeling before Trump made his "get those a-holes off the field" remarks. Trump didn't make all these players take a knee, and they were all taking a knee long before Trump's remarks. Trump also didn't make the NFL take a passive approach to the issue (NBA and MLB have rules against it). 

This issue is not on Trump one bit. There is big portion of this country that (a) is disgusted with this form of protest and/or (b) doesn't completely agree with the cause or how police are being portrayed. Regardless of what Trump said at that rally, the player protests were going to continue full force.