02-07-2018, 05:05 PM
(02-07-2018, 04:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I will say, though, that it is interesting to look at this contextually. Where Germany criminalizes denying the Holocaust, Poland is moving to criminalize claiming Poland was complicit. So Poland is making it illegal to be critical of Poland's role in the Shoah. Now, restricting speech is restricting speech is restricting speech. None of that is good. But when looking at other political events in Poland and Europe (because you're right, it isn't in a vacuum) and looking at who is doing this and the kind of precedent it can set going forward for the country, it paints quite an intriguing picture.
Yes, there is a definite distinction between criminalizing holocaust denial and criminalizing criticism of Poland's role in it. However, Holocaust denial laws are not the only example of such restricted speech in Germany. Their "hate speech" laws are every bit as restrictive as those of the UK. People are prosecuted for speech that wouldn't cause a second "look" in the United States. While I think it's overused, the slippery slope argument does have real world applications, and the restriction of speech in otherwise liberal democracies is a perfect example. The fact that younger generations don't realize how important this right is, and are willing to, at least partially, give it up disturbs me to no end.
Quote:If only logic and facts worked on most people. This is about a year old, but it's a good read: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds
They've never worked on all people, but they do work on most. I've said it before, sometimes (admittedly) in self serving fashion, that many of the debates I have on this forum are not designed to sway the opinion of the person I am arguing with, it's for the other people reading. I know from messages I receive that this occurs; that I've made an argument that either changes a person's opinion or makes them consider something they hadn't previously. That's why the appeal to logic and facts is so important. Converting the fringe is never the goal.
