04-05-2018, 06:50 PM
(04-05-2018, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here we have the poster boy for why politics in our country is currently broken.
I thought that was Trump?
Quote:"Wow, that sound s like a good idea that might save lives, but I am going to oppose it just because you are on the "other side" and you might want me to agree with another idea in the future that I don't like."
A lot of things sound like good ideas but are ripe for abuse by those in power. The LA gang injunctions were a great idea, but they overused them and misapplied them and brought the whole concept to a screeching halt.
Quote:Requiring a license for every gun owner would not limit the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns.
It absolutely could, by applying future laws that limit who can purchase them. Requiring an ID to verify your identity doesn't prevent anyone from voting, yet it's constantly decried as an attempt to stop poor and minority voters from exercising their right to vote.
Quote:Requiring all guns to be registered to a specific owner would make it harder for criminals to buy and posses guns and also make it easier to hold gun owners responsible for securing their weapons. these are both good idea that do not limit anyones ability to own guns. Yet the NRA followers will not support them for no other reason than "I disagree with something else you might ask for in the future."
And it would also make it infinitely easier to confiscate legally purchased property if a government should overreach and impose laws requiring confiscation, such as has happened in CA. We're not exactly covering new ground here, Fred. It's not like such abuses haven't already occurred for those concerned about them to point to and say, "see what can happen".
Quote:This is the exact same reason that our congress can not pass even the most reasonable laws. It is no longer about the substance of the laws. It is about what the tribal leaders tell their followers to support.
I'm forced to disagree. It's because of extreme laws passed in stated such as CA that no progress is made. An example; the anti-gun side constantly complains that smart gun technology hasn't been advanced. The reason for this is that New Jersey passed a law that states that once smart gun technology is commercially available then no firearms without said technology can be sold. They killed the concept before it was even created.
(04-05-2018, 05:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The point I am making is that you use two terms to describe the public, i.e. "Pro gun" and "Anti gun". Then you put every person who favors more regulation in the "anti gun" group. So I wonder how you can label "gun owners" as "anti gun".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/most-gun-owners-support-background-checks-and-other-limits-so-why-arent-their-voices-heard/2015/10/07/af9c96b0-6c41-11e5-aa5b-f78a98956699_story.html?utm_term=.d7820c801b9f
Surveys by Johns Hopkins and the Pew Research Center show that about 85 percent of gun owners favor universal background checks, an idea fiercely opposed by the gun lobby. Gun owners also strongly support a federal database of gun sales, prohibiting ownership for those convicted of domestic violence and barring people with mental illness from buying guns.
I very much appreciate you actually responding to the question posed. My answer to this is twofold; one, what was the methodology of the poll, and two, what was the phrasing used? The way your quote is worded it seems that they're agreeing to NICS including DV and mental health checks. It does not read that they support a federal database of who owns what and how many.
Quote:http://time.com/5197807/stricter-gun-laws-nra/
a national firearms registry, a policy proposal often raised after mass shootings. Among those who don’t own guns, 79 percent support a firearms-purchase database, but only half of gun owners back such a proposal. The level of support drops to 31 percent among NRA members.
Same questions as above.
Quote:http://time.com/5167216/americans-gun-control-support-poll-2018/
Those in favor of stricter gun legislation outnumber those opposed by a measure of more than two-to-one, according to the poll. Sixty-six percent of respondents said they would support more stringent laws, while just 31% said they would not.
The split, however, was more even among gun owners, with 50% in favor and 44% not, according to the poll.
What does "more stringent" mean? This is a vague and ill-defined term that could include something as innocuous as strengthening the existing NICS check to full scale banning of certain types of firearms. This, I believe intentional, vagueness doesn't exactly make any real point for you.
Quote:https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/25/politics/cnn-poll-gun-control-support-climbs/index.html
Overall support for stricter laws includes a majority of those who live in gun-owning households (57%)
As above, except you've replaced the word stringent with strict.
Quote:So it seems like that based on your argument that anyone who is in favor of any gun regulation is actually in favor of gun confiscation close to a majority of gun owners are in favor of gun confiscation.
Except that's not the argument I've been making at all. I can't believe I have to restate it, but the point is that the extreme wants of many on the anti-gun side have led gun owners not to trust the intentions of any law they put forth. As has already been seen, anti-gun types don't get what they want today and then stop. There are numerous real world examples of this. It doesn't help when flag bearers for the movement are publicly claiming, at a rally attended by several Dem senators, that "they'll give us an inch and we'll take a mile". Or that there have been calls for a repeal of the 2ndA. Whether such a repeal is going to happen is immaterial, the fact that a not insubstantial number of anti-gun types would like for it to happen is. You disagree, which is fine, but you'll never grasp the reluctance of people to those types of laws until you do. You come as very myopic on this subject.
Quote:But, hey, if the NRA says it is true then it must be true, right?
Damn, Fred. You were doing so well throughout these two posts too. I suppose old habits are hard to break.
