06-13-2018, 11:39 AM
(06-13-2018, 03:00 AM)hollodero Wrote: But what does my remark have to do with said outlets. I'm not an outlet. I see both spins in outlets, the ones saying it was a brilliant plan to show a gesture of goodwill, others seeing as an unnecessary gift without proper return and hence a bad deal.
Sure, it's sad that it was quite clear which outlet would say what even before the summit. But in this case, the "hater and loser" outlets seem to have the more solid point. Trump kind of got little in return for quite an irritating, not so unsignificant concession.
Granted, I'm preoccupied, in the sense that I don't think Trump is an exceptional negotiator and similar doubts.
Zona does a good job of pointing out my issues with this type of comparison. I know there's an element of jest in your initial post, but this type of comparison is made by some in the US at an alarming rate.
(06-13-2018, 08:40 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Trump is from a society where criticism of a leader is permitted (at least for the time being, anyway). In contrast, criticism of Kim in NK is a literal death sentence. We in the West have always maintained that our leaders are better because of that criticism. And, for all of his perceived faults, hasn't Trump proven time and again to be a master of turning that same criticism against the very critics? In fact, I dare say that that may be the very skill that led him to be elected in the first place.
Trump criticizing critics is as ubiquitous in today's society as critics criticizing Trump. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Exactly. The constant allegations made by some in our country about Trump being an autocrat and dictator are silly. Such is the current level of discourse on both sides.
(06-13-2018, 08:43 AM)jj22 Wrote: He's not suspending them he's trying to end them. It's caused severe push back from both parties, including confusion from VP Pence. It was a significant concession given it was Kim's main demand and Trump got nothing in return. No need for spin if you are applauding his work at the summit right?
Inane, if he was trying to end them he'd just end them. It's a temporary concession that costs no one a thing. I'm applauding his efforts to solve the N. Korea issue peacefully. The summit was a first step in a long journey. If further steps bear absolutely no fruit then you can resume your caterwauling.
Quote:And no it does not work like that in the real world of military operations. You can't just up and say hey lets have military operations we'll be there in 10 days!
Dur, the infrastructure and plans for such operations is in place and well established. Starting the ball rolling would not take that long. Dates for these things get changed all the time.
Quote:Kim is not a good man and has done some of the most horrific things to his people since Hitler. A spoiled brat. That's why no American President has ever legitimized him on the World Stage until now. That's a positive, not a negative. The pictures comparing Trump moping and pouting with our Allies in the last 19 months vs how he is with Putin/Russians, and now Kim is outrageous. I'm glad people are comparing the two to see what is going on here, and I'm glad even Trump supporters are starting to get frustrated with Trumps adoration for Dictators like Kim.
You are correct, Kim is not a good person. You are also right no previous POTUS has "legitimized" the N. Korean rules in this way. That tactic brought us to where we are now, a nuclear N. Korea with ballistic missiles capable of reaching the mainland US. If you don't see how abysmal a failure the previous tactic has been then there's not much help for you.
Quote:Sorry Bfine. Americans won't be shamed for not standing with the "Honorable" Kim (as Trump called him yesterday), and we (on both sides) won't sit quiet and watch Trump get played for a fool by him. Trump got his supporters to stand with Putin, but Kim it seems was a little too much by their reactions to the concessions yesterday.
Not Bfine, unless this is your not so clever way to insinuate I'm an alter for him or our posts are similar. Neither is true, but whatever holds your pants up. Also, no problem, keep throwing your tantrum, but don't delude yourself into thinking you've got an overwhelming majority of Americans rolling around on the ground beside you.
(06-13-2018, 10:14 AM)jj22 Wrote: For the record. North Korea previously pledged denuclearization in 1985, 1992, 1994, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2016. Each pledge was a lie.
Rather hard to pledge denuclearization prior to having nuclear weapons.
Not impressed.
