06-26-2018, 03:19 PM
(06-26-2018, 12:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is the big question, isn't it? Revolution is a potential. People think of it as a second civil war, but I think what could happen is much more like the French Revolution.
I'd like to believe that we could fix things without a revolution, but I think technocratic or incremental change is going to be too slow. There will need to be big structural changes before anything can really be calmed. I want these to happen by ballot box, I am a pacifist after all. I just fear that won't be possible and there is a growing contingent of populist extremists out there feeling the same.
(06-26-2018, 12:15 PM)Wyche Wrote: You share the same views as me Matt. I gotta admit, I'm pretty alarmed by the turn this country is taking. If we don't get things changed soon, we may be looking at a massive civil unrest. I have been paying close attention to works by Represent.Us, and the IVN. Their plan is infiltration via grassroots movement at the local levels to start. It's a decent plan, but it's going to take us being active and proactive, and most importantly....coming together. I have a little hope, but the coming together part gives me pause in today's climate. The rise of the independent keeps the hope alive for me.
Here's the real issue, and it isn't that democracy isn't working, it's that major decisions have been made outside of it of late. Same sex marriage was imposed on the nation by the courts, no one voted it in and the elected legislature did not vote for or the POTUS sign it in to law, (please note I am not commenting on the morality of same sex marriage or anything other than how it was finally implemented). If you go back to 2008 in CA and prop 8, which would have banned same sex marriage, passed by ~5% in a uber liberal state that Obama carried by ~24% points. Even in CA same sex marriage would have been banned. Now, I can foresee people making the argument that the result would be different if held now and I have to say that, while it may be closer, I could easily see prop 8 passing if it was voted on tomorrow. In any event, you have a major, seismic, shift in the US social fabric being implemented by the judicial branch. This has, of course, been followed by a further pushing of "the envelope" when it comes to transgender, gender fluid, non-binary, zie/zir and the like. You think the people who were on the fence about same sex marriage aren't reacting in even stronger terms to the continued push in this direction, just not publicly?
Secondly, you have Trump's EC victory. Again, I am not commenting on the validity of the EC or the fact it has been in use for hundreds of years. Trump winning an EC victory despite losing the popular vote is also perceived as the system operating outside of the democratic tradition. So, you have cries of "illegitimate" and "impeach" from the day after the election forward. This pushes Trump voters further to the right as they perceive it as sour grapes and a refusal to acknowledge the election results.
So, really, democracy is not what's under attack, it's the decisions outside the democratic process that have brought us to this point. As to a revolution, we aren't anywhere near one yet, but I agree we are heading in that direction and are closer than we've been at anytime since 1866. If I'm a left leaning person I certainly don't want one as the military, law enforcement and private gun owners swing heavily right.
