06-26-2018, 03:57 PM
(06-26-2018, 03:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Here's the real issue, and it isn't that democracy isn't working, it's that major decisions have been made outside of it of late. Same sex marriage was imposed on the nation by the courts, no one voted it in and the elected legislature did not vote for or the POTUS sign it in to law, (please note I am not commenting on the morality of same sex marriage or anything other than how it was finally implemented). If you go back to 2008 in CA and prop 8, which would have banned same sex marriage, passed by ~5% in a uber liberal state that Obama carried by ~24% points. Even in CA same sex marriage would have been banned. Now, I can foresee people making the argument that the result would be different if held now and I have to say that, while it may be closer, I could easily see prop 8 passing if it was voted on tomorrow. In any event, you have a major, seismic, shift in the US social fabric being implemented by the judicial branch. This has, of course, been followed by a further pushing of "the envelope" when it comes to transgender, gender fluid, non-binary, zie/zir and the like. You think the people who were on the fence about same sex marriage aren't reacting in even stronger terms to the continued push in this direction, just not publicly?
Secondly, you have Trump's EC victory. Again, I am not commenting on the validity of the EC or the fact it has been in use for hundreds of years. Trump winning an EC victory despite losing the popular vote is also perceived as the system operating outside of the democratic tradition. So, you have cries of "illegitimate" and "impeach" from the day after the election forward. This pushes Trump voters further to the right as they perceive it as sour grapes and a refusal to acknowledge the election results.
When I think back, looking at the court cases, I think back to the end of segregation. There was an uproar, sure, but we moved on. Same for the SSM cases. And then when we look at the EC we see the same thing with the prior occurrences. Yeah, these things play a part, but not as much as you think. This has more to do with elected officials not actually being responsive to the people than it does those two things.
(06-26-2018, 03:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: So, really, democracy is not what's under attack, it's the decisions outside the democratic process that have brought us to this point. As to a revolution, we aren't anywhere near one yet, but I agree we are heading in that direction and are closer than we've been at anytime since 1866. If I'm a left leaning person I certainly don't want one as the military, law enforcement and private gun owners swing heavily right.
This is one reason why I make an effort to move us away from a left v. right conversation. Don't get me wrong, there are some well armed DSA members that are ready to take to the streets around here, but it isn't about that concern. Both the Democrats and Republicans are guilty of the problems in our society. This is a country that is no longer of, by, and for the people. It is of, by, and for the corporations and wealthy elite. This is something that the military, police, and gun owners should also be unhappy about. This may be a Republican government and they may lean right, but their interests still aren't being represented by these officials.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
