Irony of Democrats Celebrating the 4th of July.......

[Bengalzona]

(07-05-2018, 10:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I saw someone post something yesterday about how the whole world should celebrate our Independence Day because without us the rest of the world would be under fascist or communist rule. I'm not sure how sincere they were, but it was very interesting.

Fascist rule? No. The Soviets would have beat down Hitler with or without us. We just shortened the war and reduced casualties for them. They whipped Japan so bad at Khalkhin Gol in 1939 that for the remainder of the war, the Japanese wanted nothing to do with them. This is not to say that we could not have gone it alone also. We could have and would have won.

Communist rule? Doubtful. The Soviet Union under Stalin's brand of communism (and his successors) wasn't so big on exporting it. They were more focused on internal situations (and well that they should have been after collectivization, the Depression, World Wars I and II and an internal Civil War). When they did capture territory (such as Eastern Europe) or support Communists in other countries (Korea, China, and Vietnam), their aims were more national-based than establishing a worldwide collective (i.e. Trotsky-ism). Communist governments were established in Eastern Europe to act as a buffer zone against any future invasion. Likewise, supporting the installation of communist regimes in China and Korea was also about establishing buffer zones and insuring favorable governments in neighboring nations. Vietnam is an exception as they do not share a border with the Soviet Union. But interest there was more based upon Chinese national interests and buffer zones (still nationalistic).

Would the Soviets have felt a need to establish these buffer zones if the U.S. were not around? I believe they would have. In the Russian view, they have been invaded four or five times from Western Europe and they were/are a bit fed up with it. China has always been a potential threat just by sheer size of the population and their location on the Eastern frontier. I don't think the Soviets imagined that the Chinese communists would develop the independent attitudes they did.

Without the U.S. in the world, the Soviets would have taken Germany and held it (pretty much what they did with East Germany). But I doubt they would have moved to take additional countries in Europe. Invading other countries for conquest takes a lot of treasure and resources. A country needs to have it's internal situations in order in order to do that. I don't think the Soviets were ever in a position to consider that, or would have been.

Japan probably would have left the Soviets alone. The Japanese Army couldn't even complete the defeat the Chinese on the ground. They were nasty-ass fighters on the islands in the Pacific (as we found out). But in situations where maneuvering large groups of troops and heavy armor came into play, they were not able to do that well.