Trump Slams Allies in favor of Putin (again)...

[GMDino]

(07-10-2018, 11:06 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: First of all, your premise, a NK, Russia and USA triumvirate, is inane and has no basis in fact.


Here are a few rational facts to counter the hysteria.  The NATO nations, especially Germany, have long allowed the US to subsidize their national defense.  The US pays an enormous amount of money to field the finest military on the planet, freeing up NATO allies to pay far less on their own military as they can shelter under the US umbrella.  This allows them to spend money they'd otherwise be forced to spend on national defense on infrastructure, expanding their economy and on social programs.  If you're familiar with the old term "guns or butter" the US has been paying for the guns so many of their allies can spend all their money on butter.  In this way the US has been taken advantage of by our allies.

Now, there are definite soft and hard power benefits to being the biggest cog, by far, in the world's most powerful military alliance, by far.  This does not change the fact that, a few nations aside, the US has been shouldering the burden of defending the NATO alliance.  Trump is very correct to attempt to rectify this situation as it is patently unfair.  How he goes about doing it is, IMO, often counter productive, and is certainly acerbic and outside the norm, but his central point is a sound one.

Now, on to Russia and NK.  It is a truism that you treat the ones you love the worst, i.e. you can be far more rude or inconsiderate to a family member or close friend than you can to a casual acquaintance or work associate.  When dealing with potentially hostile, or at the very least adversarial, nations you must be far less strident in your language.  I agree that Trump is far more comfortable with world leaders of an autocratic bent.  This should surprise no one as the man is used to running a business (spare me how well you think he does this, it's irrelevant to the point being made) and being the final decision maker. Businesses are far more autocratic by nature than western government republics/democracies.  Consensus building is not necessary, at the very least not on anything remotely like the scale required in government.  So Trump being more comfortable with leaders acquainted with the same leadership style and structure that he is used to makes logical sense.


Where people like you go off the rails, and totally lose any rational non-partisan person contemplating your arguments, is in the assessment that Trump is going to eschew old alliances in favor of ones with autocratic governments.  This will not happen and is not in danger of happening. 

Except his pattern has been to side with Putin at every turn.  Every turn.  That's not just "tough love" for our allies...that's siding with Russia over our allies.  Right down to his statements about them being back in the G8.

He has spoke on eschewing old alliances.  It's not going off the rails to repeat what he says and question his motives.

And saying his prefered leadership "style" is more like autocrats is not reassuring or even a good argument.  He's not the leader of an autocratic country.  If he was able to switch styles depending on who he is dealing with I'd give him a little credit.  Instead he's a one trick pony:  Slam/slander/say how great he is.

(07-10-2018, 11:06 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Your side of this argument also loses credibility as in one moment "Trump is going to war with North Korea!" and the next you're complaining, "Trump is actually going to meet with Kim!".  Pick a preferred course of action and stick with it, it will at least lend your arguments some credibility.  Your argument also loses steam when confronted by the fact that the most powerful autocratic regime in the world, China, is currently dead center in Trump's crosshairs.  I've said it from the moment he was elected POTUS, if Trump can peel Russia away from the Chinese orbit, a position they are only in to thumb their nose at the US, then his entire presidency will be worth it.  If you want to continue to bemoan the inevitable alliance with Russia and North Korea please feel free to do so, just don't expect me or many others to join your party.

It's difficult to keep up with a "course of action" when Trump brags about the size of his "button" one day and then loves Kim the next.

It's not wrong to suggest he wants war while he's in his tweetstorm mode and then complain that he legitimized a ruthless dictator and went on national television and said how wonderful he is.  That is simply responding to what the dotard says.