07-12-2018, 01:04 AM
(07-11-2018, 11:39 AM)GMDino Wrote: As I said, many of the complaints were that we didn't do "more". What "more" is no one wants to say other than sanctions were not "enough". I suppose they want a war? when the folks who talk about start signing up I'll support that option.
See my response to hollodero above.
Quote:Yeah...remember when the right went on and on about the "Obama apology tour"? That was good times. Not that Trump bending over every time Putin is mentioned is the same though.
All seriousness aside Obama did not have a great track record with foreign affairs. He also wasn't as "limited" as Trump is so the prospects of his "tough talk" doing anything is just folly.
That's a very long way of saying I'm correct, but kudos to you for getting there.
Quote:Except it is just a "defense" when it is compared to Obama. There is nothing given about Trump's own policies or results that is used to defend him. Just that Obama was bad too. I offered example as support of my contention that Obama was harder on Russia than Trump and why it wasn't seen as enough by some.
Trump supporters say: He does things his way...which is better than Obama. That's it.
I've provided a defense for the approach and I describe it in much more detail above.
Quote:Again, give us an alternative.
Some might call diplomacy "weak". Some think an unthinking "man" who makes deals out of thin air is "strong". When I see results we can compare them.
Weak like when Trump met with Kim?
Quote:Fact is at least something was done without the POTUS siding with Russia over our allies.
Find me a scenario where Trump sided with Russia over our allies, i.e. an ally lost an argument against Russia because of Trump.
Quote:Fact is Trump is "limited" in is abilities and his defenders simply toss that aside because Obama didn't do "enough". That's just an excuse.
Obama was limited in his abilities as well, as you just admitted. Every POTUS shares this trait. Trump is an unusual and unorthodox POTUS, he has the ability to make inroads others wouldn't attempt, much like Nixon going to China. It may not work out, it doesn't mean the idea is wrong on its face.
