Trump Slams Allies in favor of Putin (again)...

[Dill]

(07-17-2018, 09:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have to agree. I have maintained the opinion that Russia meddled, but they didn't alter the outcome of the election, really. There was a perfect storm of things that caused the 2016 result, not the least of which being Clinton having an enormous amount of baggage.

(07-17-2018, 09:37 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: At the end of the day, people voting in those states caused it. 

How they were influenced is beyond us. Certainly many things went into it, some completely false, but I don't think anyone who voted for him that was exposed to the Russian ads was ever going to vote for her. These ads only further entrenched people who were already deeply imbedded in fringe beliefs.

A case could be made that the DNC emails swayed Bernie voters away and towards Stein, but again, I don't know how much that really did. 

Outside of the non-russian factors I mentioned, I would suggest that the hack of the DNC emails played a role in suppressing independent and fringe Democrat votes. Also, many angry Bernie supporters refused to shift support to Hillary.  I knew two who absolutely refused to vote for Hillary because the DNC put their finger on the scales. 

The ads you refer to could have motivated voters who otherwise would not have voted, ramping up hate and tough anti-immigrant policies.  So it is not simply a matter of convincing the already convinced. The range of possible effects is much wider.  

Then one has to remember how much Trump and his surrogates made of the hack in every one of his speeches. 

It is quite possible that a hack of the RNC could have produced much more damning material, suppressing the Republican vote. But that was not an outcome the Russians desired.  Therefore, the fact that Russian interference was not "balanced" should be taken into account.  Only Hillary had those massive state resources deployed against her.

The last election was overdetermined by disinformation from many sources. But that does not mean the Russian intervention could not be decisive in the same sense as Comey's likely was.  When events are so overdetermined, there is no ground to select out one cause and insist that one could not have been the decider.

I say therefore that it is certainly plausible that Russia picked our president--with help of the NRA Fox and American voters.  Too close to firmly rule that out.