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Helsinki--the Tipping Point?
#1
I am astonished this topic does not have its own thread.

Trump's pro-Putin comments have finally generated a problem beyond the resources of Fox/Hannity truthiness--at least for a few days.

Trump himself seems baffled and angered that so many supporters do not share his view of the "success" of his recent European tour. He strengthened NATO, right? And reset our relationship with Russia!

And the result is, finally, mass Republican opposition in Congress, public statements of condemnation, questions and criticism from Fox commentators. It's like, momentarily, the veil of mystification (which, in any case, only worked only on his supporters) has been ripped away.

https://nypost.com/2018/07/17/ryan-defends-mueller-probe-after-trumps-summit-with-putin/amp/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna892061
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-putin-summit-20180717-story,amp.html

Suddenly, recognition of poor planning and execution and ignorance is not just butthurt over Hillary's loss, but a real question about Trump's ability to guarantee national security.

I am guessing that over the next two days, the troops will start falling back into line, once they have made their views clear. They will feel they have set a limit on Trump, finally.  

Questions for discussion:

Does congressional condemnation indicate a permanent realignment of Congress' relation to the president, which Trump must henceforward take into account? Will individuals be more willing to speak out about other issues? People on the foreign relations and intel committees HAVE to be concerned (with the possible exception of Nunes).

Will this resistance and the public perception of failure endure speed up the downward spiral of Trump's behavior rather than correct it? (I think the former; He does not learn from errors and lashes out at friends as well as enemies. Why would that lessen rather than increase?)

What is the effect of Helsinki on foreign policy--e.g., combined with the erratic ill-treatment of our NATO allies? It has to be clear that the leader of the free world and the world's most powerful military and military alliance cannot adequately prioritize foreign policy issues or distinguish friends from enemies.  He called for a summit which embarrassed him and showed of Putin's skill at manipulation--and came away calling it a "victory."

Related to the previous question--what will be the effect on the EU and NATO. No papering it over anymore.  They have to be planning how to go it alone, or nearly alone, unable to count on US leadership and resources to the degree they used to. (I know Trump defenders want that; but outside that bubble, and outside Russia, China, and NK, that is generally bad thing)
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]





Messages In This Thread
Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 02:26 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-17-2018, 02:35 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 02:51 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-17-2018, 03:36 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Benton - 07-17-2018, 03:56 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-17-2018, 04:06 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Griever - 07-17-2018, 03:51 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Griever - 07-17-2018, 02:55 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 08:57 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 10:20 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 01:00 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 01:13 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - treee - 07-17-2018, 03:00 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 03:07 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - treee - 07-17-2018, 03:22 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - jj22 - 07-17-2018, 03:04 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 03:27 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - CKwi88 - 07-17-2018, 03:19 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Benton - 07-17-2018, 03:27 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 03:55 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Benton - 07-17-2018, 04:07 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 04:50 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - PhilHos - 07-17-2018, 05:05 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 05:11 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 04:34 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-17-2018, 06:43 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 09:17 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-17-2018, 09:23 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 09:46 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-17-2018, 10:25 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 11:25 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-17-2018, 11:51 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 12:12 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 12:39 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 12:03 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 12:16 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 12:34 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 12:41 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 01:20 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 01:24 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 01:49 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Benton - 07-18-2018, 12:47 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 01:07 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - jj22 - 07-18-2018, 09:46 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 10:35 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 11:01 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 11:20 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - jj22 - 07-18-2018, 12:19 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 12:21 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 11:22 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 01:15 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 01:37 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 02:14 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 03:31 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 03:39 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 03:49 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 01:35 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 03:38 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 11:36 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 11:52 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 12:34 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 12:56 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 02:01 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 12:22 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 12:24 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 01:44 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 02:11 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 09:12 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-17-2018, 11:39 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Benton - 07-17-2018, 11:56 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - samhain - 07-17-2018, 09:23 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-17-2018, 10:35 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 08:53 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 09:02 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - jj22 - 07-18-2018, 10:44 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 11:15 AM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 12:08 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - jj22 - 07-18-2018, 12:16 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - bfine32 - 07-18-2018, 12:20 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - GMDino - 07-18-2018, 03:55 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 04:13 PM
RE: Helsinki--the Tipping Point? - Dill - 07-18-2018, 05:09 PM

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