Helsinki--the Tipping Point?

[Dill]

(07-17-2018, 04:07 PM)Benton Wrote: And having typed that, I sound like a conspiracy theorist. But it's really not, it's just the same big Washington players who have been floating around appointments and departments since the 70s. No conspiracy, they do their manipulating out in the open, pretty much.

As far as the last graf, I dunno. I think most countries realize minor changes are going to happen from time to time. Sometimes we love Turkey, sometimes we shake our head, for example. But we're still allies. Those allies know that what the American people want is largely irrelevant. Almost every poll will tell you the same: US citizens want jobs, wage growth, less involvement in other countries, less war, better healthcare and more education opportunities. And we keep getting the same results because, by and large, the same people are in charge: stagnant job growth, flat wages, more fighting, more involvement in other countries, worse healthcare and less education/higher secondary ed costs.

I don't think so. Your explanation is just multi-factoral, taking into account how institutions and organizations, even in government, have a degree of autonomy, and their own resistance to others' purposes. (At the same time, they can be occasionally "re-purposed"--like ICE-- to do things the weren't supposed to do.) You understand how individuals are constrained by institutions, have to work within them, and how institutions may sometimes work at cross purposes--especially when leaders and rank and file think they are protecting their own interests. So we get results and policies sometimes that are certainly "there" but not really what anyone wanted.

Conspiracy theories go the opposite direction. They eliminate resistance so otherwise opposed players suddenly work together in frictionless coordination--thousands in different departments of the DoD conspire to take down the twin towers for the White House and a cabal of neocons, and make it look like terrorists did 9/11; none were concerned about killing their own family members and fellow Americans; or how so many could keep it all secret for so long, planting bombs on every other floor of the towers and building or commandeering commercial jets etc.  Smooth operation and secret. Or was it the Mossad?  How did all the Jews know beforehand not to show up for work that day? That's not what you are doing.

I mostly agree with your second paragraph--except my question is whether Trump is moving us beyond the "norm," the expectation that things will settle down again.  You mention Turkey--I could pose the same question with regard to Erdogan. 

Not sure about the last point. Is the problem the same people or that one group keeps blocking healthcare, etc.