Helsinki--the Tipping Point?

[hollodero]

(07-17-2018, 10:20 PM)Dill Wrote: (Though I'm pretty sure SSF will say he is NOT a Trump defender, just a guy who calls out "extremists" on "both sides," so he cannot turn against him.)

More of a Trump tolerator. He doesn't defend him on every issue, far from it.

(07-17-2018, 10:20 PM)Dill Wrote: A celebrity p-grabber is still an alpha male, and Charlottesville showed Trump does not kow tow to political correctness. If you are hard right, you want a tough guy facing down Putin on the international stage, right? That's why you look past what wussy liberals call bad behavior. National security and strong leadership are a priority.
What I see different about Helsinki, though, is that it shows Trump as weak, a REAL strongman's *****, which is worse than incompetent to a base that generally does not prize or (sometimes) even recognize incompetence. That was the First Diplomat and representative of the whole nation up there doing what Putin wanted, at the expense of his own government and people--something NO ONE on his own staff or in Congress or at Fox News would have done.

I don't know if you're not falling for a pseudo argument here (strong, defending the country etc.). That is used if it seems effective, which doesn't mean it's imperative. Benton just mentioned an uninformed meme generation, and I think that's what we're dealing with when really talking the "base". They take anything in as an argument and selectively search for them. And there are enough providers. One can see the spin already. He only tries to make peace with Russia, he is so smart and doesn't fall for media naratives and for the propaganda about Putin that was stuffed in our heads by hateful leftist ideologists in the media etc. etc.

(07-17-2018, 10:20 PM)Dill Wrote: Also, when Fox runs a title like "Putin eats Trump's lunch," that is hard to walk back.

I see. They really run that?
It seems you come to agree with me that FOX news has to find a conscience and save the country. I still see them as crucial. And you're right, if they can't go along any more, than I'd say the tipping point is reached. I just have my doubts, I just took a peek at yesterday's Hannity show and he's already on full "Trump did great in Helsinki, media leftists deep state" mode.

(07-17-2018, 10:20 PM)Dill Wrote: Not as humiliating as getting beat by a girl, but Russia's leader is clearly the master of Trump as he never was of Obama. That has to trouble people who stress "strength" over competence. And most of all it troubles the unstable Trump who, if I am right about his personality, must now "punch back twice as hard," all around him but not at Putin, to show he is not weak. He might quiet down a day or two, as he did after the Hollywood access tape, but his staff and cabinet can expect the worst in weeks to come. (So I predict.) I am thinking his staff might also plan some tuff-sounding rhetoric for him over the next week to show he is not in Putin's pocket.  Any real pushback will have to come from Congress though.

Oh I guess you're right about Trump's personality, I can see him lashing out and tweeting awful things, I'm not so sure it matters much. With Congress, I suppose that's right also, but with these Republicans I don't see it happening. A neutered party is what I see, that already took so many steps into the mess for Trump that it's hard to suddenly stop and admit all the dirt. Especially when most republican voters won't appreciate it.
And the step that would be needed is conservatives voting democrat for the good of the country in those Midterms. Which I'd say would be the right thing to do, but already I saw the question posed who else to possibly vote for, so I guess others don't agree with that stance.
After all, hey the economy is good.