Nationalism

[Belsnickel]

(11-02-2018, 07:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I understand your reasoning, but here I think you are on less solid ground.  US interests should be promoted ahead of other national interests by the US government.  There are obvious areas in which our gain comes at the expense of intense detriment of others.  In these incidents a degree of common sense goes a long way.  Put simply, us gaining "1" at the expense of you losing "1,000" is not a desirable outcome, even from a nationalist point of view.  The Snowden situation is a good example of my stance on this issue.  I had little to no issue with his exposing our espionage against our fellow citizens.  I had major issues with his exposing our espionage against other countries, including allies.  I don't care if we put a camera in every German residence if it advances US interests.

Since we mostly agreed beyond this one, I am just going to focus here. You seem to be misunderstanding my point. When I refer to the zero-sum approach it isn't saying that promoting our own interests first is a bad idea. What the zero-sum approach is about is that you approach the situation with a desire to win at the expense of others and making them losers. It comes from the idea that there is a finite amount of something and your goal is to have it all. The zero-sum approach is something that anyone with any experience in foreign policy will tell you is harmful to our relationships with other nations. So much of diplomacy is trying to find a win-win scenario. Sure, that isn't always possible and sometimes things are lopsided even when they are, but when you enter the negotiations with the zero-sum approach you aren't even trying to reach that point.

(11-02-2018, 07:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I completely agree. Which leads us to this question, why have so many lost their minds when Trump used the word "nationalist"? Is it because they believe that we have already crossed the line into jingoism? Or is it that they are attempting to redefine the term to paint him as a bigoted jingoist? I don't think the answer is clear cut enough for anyone of reason to be comfortable with it.

I think there is concern over the use of that word because of its historical connotations as well as the groups in modern times that use the word in the US primarily. Nationalism has often been a tool of autocrats in history, and when you look at some of Trump's tendencies, that can cause some people to be concerned. We are talking about someone who said recently that he believes he can unilaterally overturn a constitutional amendment, after all. In modern usage, nationalism is something that isn't embraced much in the US except by certain fringe groups, like white nationalists. These happen to be a major part of Trump's base.

So Trump referring to himself as a nationalist could cause people to be concerned because of either the historical usage or because they see it as a signal of support to the white nationalists that he has referred to as having "good people" among them, already.