Pelosi, Schumer To Trump: "Let's Debate Border Funds in Private"

[hollodero]

(12-17-2018, 04:39 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Double fence with barbed wire on top of both. I'm very well aware of what it is, but some people here like to use the Wall/Fence term interchangeably.

Still, not the same thing. Your Hungary example might be useful to advocate fencing, it's not that useful to advocate a wall.
Fences are way cheaper. And there's a point to be made that whoever can cross a fence also can cross a wall.

(12-17-2018, 04:39 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And why wouldn't it be as effective as they claim? The problem is that the are unsure the number that was actually crossing daily before the fence was erected, but now they definitely know how many aren't coming thru.

One of your own links pointed out that people don't think they are that awfully effective. But sure, it's hard to find numbers.

As for your questions how to keep migrants out. Every case is different, for sure. In Europe's case, it wasn't the Hungary fence, but the EU paying Turkey to keep many refugees. The decline in refugee numbers, mostly stemming fom that, is seen all over Europe, not just in fenced Hungary. The fence probably has little to do with that.
In case of Syria, of course, the most effective way to stop migrants is to end the war in Syria. With Mexico, helping them reach a better economic situation might be way more effective than a wall. With the 1 billion each year to maintain a wall, along with the maybe 20 billions to erect it (which is an awfully low estimate), many steps could be taken. Use the funds to build them up. Help them fight the cartels, and so on. Would be my initial suggestions to deal with that. Which makes the US a better neighbor, is the more civil way and would also avoid mass expropriations.
It might also help to deny illegals housing or jobs. Undocumented immigrants seem to have quite an easy time to get work and a place to stay (is my impression). More audits might help. Maybe, and I don't know, the US is also giving away visas too freely. Most illegal immigrants seem to just come with a visa and never leave again. A wall would do nothing about that.
Sure, surveilling the border is a necessity too. A wall seems like a bad way to do it. A wall can be climbed, so you would need to surveil it anyway. A wall also can be tunneled. The Israeli "anti-tunnel" technology costs around 800 million for 37 miles of wall. Which would mean 43 billions for the US border, which kind of seems a lot of additional costs.