Pelosi, Schumer To Trump: "Let's Debate Border Funds in Private"

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-17-2018, 09:24 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You did a lot of work to show a flawed number. Your estimates make a lot of assumptions, such as the children (US citizens, mind you, not undocumented immigrants) being here and in school all thirteen years, that they actually receive benefits (children, even USC children of undocumented parents often don't receive benefits because the parents fear any interaction with the government), you are grossly underestimating the taxes that are paid in (income and payroll taxes can be avoided, but property taxes and sales taxes are unavoidable), and on, and on, and on with the flaws in your analysis.

Your attempt to do this is admirable, but it is based on nothing more than a surface level understanding of policy. Really digging into these numbers requires a more in depth understanding of the analysis behind them and how to figure into that the analysis the high number of complicating factors. This is why I said there is no real way to tell. Seriously, I read journals on this sort of thing, I study policy analysis, I eat, sleep, and breathe statistical tests. I have yet to see an assessment of this issue that lays out in any certain terms the net economic impacts of illegal immigration.

What this all tells me, that some of the best economists in the world have been unable to give a definitive answer to this, is that stopping the flow of undocumented immigrants with something as costly as a wall on the southern border (especially when a large proportion of those illegal immigrants never crossed the southern border but came in by other means) should not be a policy priority when so many other things are negatively impacting the citizenry on a daily basis.

Flawed Number, there is no real number because many are hidden in the system because they call them USC's. The Welfare program refuses to publicly to identify them. I wonder why? you would think if there was so few in the system that they'd be happy to report that.

Yes, the Anchor babies are USC's, but they should not be here in the first place if their parents are both Illegally here. I don't get why that is such a hard concept for people to understand, it's a by product of the illegals being here that should not be.

Seriously Matt, you knocking on me cause I make a lot of assumptions, but then you do it as well with out any links??? It's rather obvious that the majority of the illegal immigrants live in poverty and their anchor babies can collect US Aid.

There is no FEAR to interact with the US Gov, the US Gov is not allowed to confirm/verify anyone's status if they are not applying for benefits for themselves. Just list the USC (anchor baby) and verify them. DONE. This is how they avoid it. Why also is there about 4.5 million ITIN Numbers? If you are here legally, you can get a SSN (with or with out restrictions) for tax purposes. So there is not many reasons why someone needs an ITIN unless... you are unable to have a visa.... 

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/facts-about-individual-tax-identification-number-itin
The ITIN is not an immigration-enforcement tool. The application process is designed to facilitate tax payment, and the fact the IRS does not share applicants’ private information with immigration enforcement agencies is key to tax compliance.   



Do some drop out? Yes they do, but it's going to be a rather small % compared to the total enrolled that year.

The sales tax, irs taxes, property taxes, it's all listed in link I provided already.  Somewhere around 12B right?


Say even if I'm off on my final number by +/- 50% that's still a big number and bigger than the 12B that's coming in??

And you're right, there's still way more than I have listed economically speaking. There's also wage suppression, which is going to be a very hard number to even calculate, or do you deny it exists?

I wonder how Trump got $200 mil? I know that a lot of the numbers I'm using are out dated by a few years.

And Matt, those economic reports you keep trying to talk about? If you eat, sleep and live for this stuff, you should be able to give me a few links. I am willing to bet that the majority of your economic reports you have read are what happens if we deport all of them. That's not what this discussion is about. I have also already made it clear my intent to not to deport anyone. Only to stop more from coming and deal with the ones already here by legalizing them in some way shape or form and the deportees will be ones with records.
If you have any that talk about their economic impact as illegal vs legal, that's what I'd like to see most,