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Graduation Stories
#44
(05-21-2019, 04:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, I get that you and Bpat know more about the educational system and it's inner-workings than I. I just cannot grasp the concept of someone employed by a private organization is not that organization's employee. But of course that's most likely because my experience is in business. 

I think that is exactly it. You have difficulty understanding/imagining other kinds of organizational relationships.

So the inner workings of universities, the ideals and codes by which they work, are a mystery to you--though maybe not much longer as they continue adopting corporate (TQM)models of management, replace tenure with non-tenure tracks, become dependent upon corporate grants, and expand administration to the point they outnumber faculty.

If you are curious as to why your "employee" model doesn't (or shouldn't) apply to universities, recall the post above where I note that it is faculty, not administration, who decide who should be hired or promoted, what students should learn, and whether they have learned it.  It is the administration's job to make sure the classrooms are heated in winter, there are enough beds in the dorm, and the English dept. has funding for a Medievalist. It is NOT to police faculty/student politics.

And when administrations cross the line, it is the duty of faculty to step forward and hold their "employers" (lol) accountable. Make them step down, if necessary. Tenure was created to protect faculty from employers --private and public alike--who think THEY should run the university and faculty are simply employees. But faculty are custodians of knowledge and tradition, and to be protected as such.THEY are the university; they MAKE the university a university, not the administrators. Administrators come and go. And are not tenured.

When I began college back in 69-70, students held a sit in to protest a curfew applied only to women students; next year I went to another college where the war in Cambodia was protested. It would be a rare college/university which went a year without some form of protest--part of teaching students about civic engagement. Any given month there are protests involving faculty over myriad issues on campuses across the the US. A very sad day when that is NOT the case.

Mt. San Antonio College faculty protest proposed health insurance switch
https://www.sgvtribune.com/2019/03/16/mt-san-antonio-college-teachers-protest-proposed-health-insurance-switch/
CCSU students, faculty protest racism, homophobia on campus
http://www.newbritainherald.com/NBH-New+Britain+News/348679/ccsu-students-faculty-protest-racism-homophobia-on-campus
Georgetown Law School Faculty, Students Protest Sessions Free Speech Event
USC students, faculty protest school for naming only men as presidential finalists

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/education/article229545974.html
Faculty, students protest consolidation plan for colleges
https://ctmirror.org/2019/03/08/faculty-students-protest-consolidation-plan-for-colleges/
Students, faculty protest confederate statue on Ole Miss campus
https://www.wtva.com/content/news/Students-faculty-protest-confederate-statue-on-Ole-Miss-campus-506253491.html
University of Arizona students, faculty hold protest over charges in Border Patrol incident
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-education/2019/04/10/protest-ua-campus-tucson-over-charges-border-patrol-incident/3425425002/
“Show us the money”: CSU faculty protest for living wages
https://collegian.com/2019/05/show-us-the-money-csu-faculty-protest-for-living-wages/

Sure, you could not run the postal service this way, or a chain of fast food restaurants, or a branch of the military. Because a university is different from churches, government institutions, the military, and business, different because its "employees" are tasked with teaching higher order knowledge and modes of inquiry, and to do so must have autonomy (non-interference) from those who do not know how to teach that knowledge or those modes, who don't know what's required. I.e., those you call "employers."
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]





Messages In This Thread
Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-20-2019, 02:59 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Yojimbo - 05-20-2019, 03:04 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-20-2019, 03:14 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Benton - 05-20-2019, 05:57 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - fredtoast - 05-20-2019, 04:20 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-20-2019, 05:56 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-20-2019, 04:49 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-20-2019, 05:58 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - fredtoast - 05-20-2019, 06:41 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-20-2019, 06:46 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Au165 - 05-20-2019, 07:25 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-20-2019, 08:44 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Au165 - 05-20-2019, 08:47 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-20-2019, 08:56 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-20-2019, 09:55 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - fredtoast - 05-21-2019, 03:57 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-20-2019, 11:06 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-20-2019, 11:24 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-21-2019, 01:02 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-21-2019, 01:03 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-21-2019, 02:04 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - BmorePat87 - 05-21-2019, 02:20 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-21-2019, 03:20 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-21-2019, 04:04 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-21-2019, 04:56 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-21-2019, 08:21 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-22-2019, 06:00 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - BmorePat87 - 05-21-2019, 11:06 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-22-2019, 12:53 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-22-2019, 08:32 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - BmorePat87 - 05-22-2019, 09:51 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-22-2019, 11:38 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-21-2019, 03:39 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - fredtoast - 05-21-2019, 04:23 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-21-2019, 04:45 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-21-2019, 05:02 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-23-2019, 05:46 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - fredtoast - 05-23-2019, 06:07 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-23-2019, 06:42 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 01:41 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-24-2019, 02:55 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 10:30 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 11:51 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 01:47 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 03:33 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 03:57 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-24-2019, 04:27 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 04:37 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-24-2019, 04:47 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 04:53 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-24-2019, 05:20 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 05:44 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - fredtoast - 05-24-2019, 06:02 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 06:13 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - fredtoast - 05-24-2019, 06:26 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 07:43 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-28-2019, 02:21 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-24-2019, 10:18 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 10:42 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-25-2019, 12:06 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-25-2019, 12:28 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-27-2019, 07:18 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-27-2019, 07:52 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-27-2019, 11:12 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-28-2019, 02:16 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-28-2019, 02:40 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-28-2019, 02:44 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-28-2019, 02:44 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-28-2019, 02:48 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-28-2019, 02:52 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-28-2019, 02:57 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-28-2019, 03:00 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-28-2019, 02:46 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-28-2019, 06:39 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-28-2019, 08:07 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-24-2019, 04:47 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 04:49 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-24-2019, 04:54 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 04:58 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-30-2019, 09:26 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-21-2019, 01:09 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-20-2019, 08:58 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-20-2019, 09:17 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Vas Deferens - 05-21-2019, 01:35 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-21-2019, 08:39 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-21-2019, 01:05 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-21-2019, 02:48 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-21-2019, 03:30 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-21-2019, 04:00 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-21-2019, 04:38 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-21-2019, 04:52 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - fredtoast - 05-22-2019, 02:39 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-22-2019, 10:17 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-22-2019, 10:31 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-22-2019, 11:23 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-22-2019, 11:29 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-22-2019, 11:34 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-22-2019, 11:43 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-22-2019, 12:16 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-22-2019, 12:31 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-22-2019, 02:29 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-22-2019, 07:55 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - fredtoast - 05-22-2019, 01:53 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-22-2019, 02:12 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - BmorePat87 - 05-22-2019, 02:37 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-22-2019, 08:01 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - BmorePat87 - 05-23-2019, 08:16 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-23-2019, 05:41 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-22-2019, 02:04 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-22-2019, 03:34 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-23-2019, 08:20 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-23-2019, 05:39 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-23-2019, 09:58 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-23-2019, 11:59 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-24-2019, 02:53 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 10:39 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-24-2019, 02:58 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 03:18 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-24-2019, 04:25 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-24-2019, 04:57 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-24-2019, 09:40 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 10:18 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-24-2019, 09:55 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-24-2019, 11:20 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 11:33 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-28-2019, 02:53 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - GMDino - 05-28-2019, 02:56 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-28-2019, 03:54 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - bfine32 - 05-28-2019, 03:59 PM
RE: Graduation Stories - BmorePat87 - 05-29-2019, 08:37 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - Dill - 05-31-2019, 03:15 AM
RE: Graduation Stories - Belsnickel - 05-29-2019, 08:44 AM

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