The political bubble and how it affects your opinion

[Dill]

(07-22-2019, 04:48 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: And if this sort of thing "comes between" the parties, do you think politicians are the primary "cause" of it?

As far as whether this is primarily caused by politicians...yea. I think so. Politicians kind of need you to feel like voting matters. If you think both candidates are basically the same (Hillary was pretty fiscally conservative and her socially liberal policies were pretty recent and not that all encompassing, especially compared to where the party is now), then you wouldn't really feel compelled to vote unless you have a specific issue that you vote on. So I think it's natural that politicians would try to make the other side seem worse than they are. 

Again, Donald is a perfect example of this. He is literally telling people the media lies to them regularly. He is attempting to divide the country by virtue of demonizing and de-legitimizing one of the main systems meant to check him. And he's no kinder to Democratic politicians either. Remember, before Donald, it used to be basically taboo to criticize the President before you. Donald insults Obama so much, it's not even newsworthy anymore.

AOC has been described as the liberal Donald Trump because she uses similar tactics. I think the squad in general does stoke the anti-Republican vibe, not just anti-Trump.

It's in politicians' best interest for their voting base to hate their opponents. It's how they get re-elected. Now, that's not to say that all demonization is a cynical attempt to falsify their opponent. I'm sure both sides believe part or most of what they say about the other side. But the reason decorum used to be important in politics was because outwardly calling other politicians bad people for what they believe is a great way to get them shot at on a baseball field or have bombs sent to their home addresses. And this hatred creates conspiracy theories, like the pizzagate thing.

It's just not good for anyone. And I hope it stops after 2020.

No doubt there are politicians who demonize and always have been.You might agree it is far worse than at any time since 1954, and that Trump is the worst all time offender, shattering norms of decorum almost daily (E.g., your mention of his criticizing previous presidents would be a mild example.) Not sure how AOC uses similar tactics. Does she degrade and humiliate the other gender or racial groups? I have not read all her tweets.

I can no longer see politicians as the primary cause, though clearly one side is the greater offender.

Dems need to feel voting matters, but don't respond all that well to demonization as a tactic, or at least to the degrees of it we see on the Republican side. Efforts to create Rush/Hannity style radio and talk shows have not drawn enough audience to keep advertisers. Were Hillary to demonize the press as Trump does, or disparage his looks, she would have been toast. The comment about Trump's "basket of deplorables" did not rouse her base. And she forgot it is "elitism" when Dems do it. Dems as a group respond less well to conspiracy theories and us/them frames which scapegoat out groups/minorities.

Trump certainly demonizes, and caricatures: crooked Hillary, little Marco, lyin' Ted, low energy Jeb, not to mention Mexican rapists and fake news. And in doing so he lowers standards and debases the nation from its highest office. But this only works because, among his supporters, traditional standards and norms have already been or were ready to be discarded. Not sure politicians caused that. I look more to other kinds of social change in education and media (especially the rise of Fox News), including the internet. That stuff creates bubbles more so than politicians. Evangelical churches appear important contributors to the alternative worldview espoused by Trump supporters, as well groups like the Federalist Society and CPAC and the NRA, and to some degree think tanks like the Heritage Foundation and Freedomworks. Settle all that on top of an increasing wage gap (and a wealthy class prepared to maintain that gap) and increasing minority population, and a segment of the population is ready for a WALL and someone who will "say what everyone is thinking but afraid to say." When Trump steps onto the stage he appears to me more the effect than cause of Trumpism.

If politicians are not the primary or immediate cause of the breakdown in norms we have been discussing, then it is doubtful the problem will disappear when Trump is impeached or voted out. There are probably politicians who could help repair the damage, but it's not clear who would elect them. Not people who respond to what everyone is (with good reason) afraid to say.