Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump

[Dill]

(09-25-2019, 04:39 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'm going to be 100% candid here. If I didn't already want Trump impeached, this issue would not be what changed my mind. Honestly, I just don't really see why this is considered a bigger problem than anything else Trump does. Trump has been trying to strong arm other nations for his entire presidency, so this is just another one of his "I think politics are exactly like shady New York Business practices where I can just intimidate other countries into doing what I want them to do" tactics. He probably didn't even think twice about it when he was doing it.

Now, obviously, it will depend heavily on the fall out and details of this whistle blower, but this is just another thing Trump can plead ignorance on and let it float away.

Do they really expect Americans to give a single shit about our President withholding aid from Ukraine, regardless of his motive or reasoning? I honestly can't think of a single thing your average American could possibly care less about. I could even see some Americans thinking it's smart to withhold aid to one of those 'Communist countries.'

Impeach Trump because he's incompetent, embarrassing, senile, idiotic, narcissistic, incapable of telling a truth to save his ***** life or because he is simply unfit for the most powerful single political position in the entire world.

Don't try and "gotcha" him with some pedantic whistle blowing that most Americans probably don't give a shit about...

That said, I'm glad something happened to FINALLY get the Dems off their asses and start the impeachment inquiry in earnest. It's about time.

Impeaching Trump because he is embarrassing or even lying is, in my view, much harder than impeaching him for

1. Using his office, US foreign policy, and aid resources to leverage a foreign government into investigating an opposing candidate's son,

2. sending a private lawyer to broker/manage the investigation (an operative outside official government capacity, working in Trump's personal interest), and

3. then suppressing a whistle blower, threatening to deny him/her legal protection and illegally intercepting the report so that it cannot reach Congressional oversight.  And this while stonewalling myriad other legally justified investigations.

I think it possible to convince enough Americans that the issue is not whether Ukraine gets aid.  Enough may be able to understand this is not like trying to "strong arm" China in a trade war, something he is empowered to do in official capacity.  It is more like your town mayor threatening to withhold a building permit already legally granted you, unless you give him dirt on the guy running against him. Much simpler than Mueller reporting prosecutable crimes but citing a DOJ precedent limiting his scope of action and refusing to prosecute so Congress could blah blah blah . . .

I'm not sure this is worse than obstructing the Mueller investigation; but it is certainly on the same level. And given the phone call occurs the day after Mueller's testimony, shows resolution to continue flaunting oversight.

The variables here are really narrative: will Dems be able to effectively explain why this is a serious violation of the executive's oath to enforce rule of law, AND a decision to continue in that mode, a recurring pattern; OR will Fox and the WH be able to fix the "hate" narrative AND gaslight voters by  flipping the story, making impeachment a strategy to save Biden, the real crook.  Both sides will then be leveling perfectly mirrored accusations; but this time around can they really count on enough people noticing that both don't equally correlate with the factual record? I don't think so, and partly because of Trump's increasing erratic behavior.  He will continue to fool some of the people all of the time, but not enough. This may not move Trump supporters, but it should begin shifting Trump defenders to the side of the law.

Final point, watch the Senate. Are they more silent or circumspect than usual? Saying "wait and see first" rather than outright condemning impeachment?  When more and more become "impartial," that will eventually give some permission to break party discipline.