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[Dill]

(10-03-2019, 11:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Excellent job of Monday morning QB'ing.  I guess with perfect military intelligence Leonidas might have done things differently.  He sacrificed himself to buy time.  Whether you think he succeeded or not the end result was a Greek victory.  I suppose if you view every action in a complete vacuum, which you seem to be doing, then yeah, what a waste.  Or maybe, just maybe the delay affected logistic lines, prevented a more aggressive campaign and bought the Greeks the time needed to win a naval victory that saved their people.  Bottom line is the Greeks won, hence Leonidas did not fail, as his objective was to save the Greek people.

Again, it's rather telling that our far left leaning posters view this self sacrifice as a "failure".  Maybe you're just mad the Persian's lost? 

"Smirk" is all you've got here. And you won't provoke me into substanceless and needlessly provocative asides like "telling that our far right leaning posters conflate sacrifice and winning."

Whatever you're doing is certainly not quarterbacking. You've got a story about Leonidas and you're sticking with it. Your complaint seems to be that others aren't falling in line with a political/ideological reading of the story.

The Greek goal was to stop the Persians at Thermopylae.  They and Leonidas did not. But he didn't fail because the Greeks won later?? 

So then you speak of "delay" and time "bought" for a needed victory, like this was Horatius at the bridge, no explanation of how any delay contributed to that. Greek land forces were scattered and, as I said above, never effective again that year. Was the plundering and razing of every Greek city from Boeotia through Attica "delayed" three days?   Less aggressive?

Sure, Greeks eventually won. A year later. That doesn't create a retroactive "win" for Leonidas. Salamis and Plataea saved the Greeks, and Mycale put the nail in the Persian coffin.

This possibility I will grant: The sacrifice of the Spartans and Thespians could have had an effect on Greek morale over the next year, as the former had died so far from home and in service of common defense.  Hard to measure though.  No reason at all, though, to suppose that Greek victory somehow hinged upon Leonidas' stand, on some "delay" he effected.