The Democratic Party has moved too far to the left.

[Dill]

(11-26-2019, 06:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I understand the Left's tactic of trying to shame those that vote for Trump, but when looking at the candidates you like, do you rate them by how good of a person he/she is.

As I said: Wise people think this way and truthful people admit it. I'd love for a conservative Saint to occupy the Oval Office, but first we have to impeach Trump before we can welcome President Pence.

Candidates have to be good people. Yes. I do rate them like that. And they must also be competent. Good+competent=not incompatible.

The bolded deserves its own post because of the peculiar framing of the Trump question. 

As if people should NOT be ashamed not only of voting for Trump, but of continuing to support him as he daily proves his unfitness for office.

The "Left," like 10% of the Republican party and a number of never-Trump conservatives, sincerely think that Trump is actually damaging our government and foreign policy, while unnecessarily fomenting division at home through impulse rage tweets and vulgar, autocratic manner.

Further, because the damage is of the type that people can ordinarily agree on (e.g., spreading the lie that Ukraine, not Russia, hacked the US election; calling women "dogs" on twitter; obstructing an investigation involving national security), Trump and minions must respond by gaslighting, denying facts and creating alternative ones to muddy the political waters, and attacking the free press to poison alternative wells of information. All disagreement, all criticism, is "partisan," not grounded in law and fact--and so we lurch into Constitutional crisis.

So given this context, what is it, really, that you "understand" about efforts to flag and push back against this abuse of power and office? Why does that pushback NOT signal ethical and principled behavior?  If it did, you would not be calling it a "leftist tactic," as if "the left" secretly agrees (with you?) that Trump is NOT REALLY ALL THAT BAD.  They are just down on the P-grabber for partisan political ends. 300 dead Kurdish allies the day after an impulsive phone call with Erdogan? Extorting Ukraine to get, not dirt on Biden, but an announcement for gaslighting back in the US? The end to political asylum for anyone from a "shithole" country, the use of "fixers" to minimize scandals, the increasing number of ETHICAL career professionals who have resigned under Trump rather than violate the law, along with the Nixon-level arrest rate of his appointees?

"The Left" can't itself feel shame about this? Cannot be re-affirming standards of performance and ethical behavior once agreed upon across the spectrum--but ESPECIALLY BY CONSERVATIVES?

Looks like a kind of triangulation at work here, not only in your statements but those of many on the right, especially those who like to call themselves "independents."  Fox has long helped the American right understand that "The Left" (Benghazi! the emails!!) poses great danger to the nation (as it does indeed for the 1%), far more than Trump at present. And now in consequence, criticizing Trump, acknowledging that he really does what he does, doesn't just tar Trump, but the political acumen of an entire party who thought him a great businessman (the tv image) with an extraordinary ability to judge competence in others--the perfect to choice to battle Washington corruption and face down Putin, Xi, and Kim. (Never-Trumpers saw the problem clearly back in 2015.  He would bring the GOP a leader no one could defend--and maintain conservative identity. He would destroy the party.)

Very hard now to attack Trump, to recognize what he is, without foregrounding the colossal bad judgment which put him in power and keeps him there, and conversely, without confirming the good judgment of those who weren't fooled by a media image--i.e., "the left."

Unsurprising that now some rightists who occasionally distance themselves from Trump nevertheless feel bound to attack his attackers, continue the Fox view of all political action as partisan all the way down; "tactics" rather than decency explain why the majority of the US objects to Trump's singularly vulgar public persona and his abuse of power.