Imho, here's the scary thing.

[*michaelsean*]

(12-26-2019, 09:41 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah. A couple things. Kennedy's brother, as far as I know, actually had some real competence. Ivanka and Jared have no competence at all (if they had, I'd be ok with them holding positions, family should also not exclude competent people). Also, I guess Kennedy did not surpass the security clearance process for his brother. And the brother did not sell a skyscraper to Qataris so they can be 'forgiven' for whatever again. I don't think that's two comparable situations.

Also, I did not question at all, at all that Trump can say the things about the FBI he says. That's not about it being illegal and has nothing to do with first amendment rights. It's about how this kind of language really should cause an universal counterreaction, meaning folks distancing themselves from this slander. But on the contrary, GOP politicians follow the lead and call law enforcement agencies all kinds of nasty names. How this can be considered normal and harmless and irrelevant - I don't really know. I have to say, I find that a bit naive.

But I'd really like to comment on FOX. Not just how eerily astonishing this whole thing is for European eyes. But mostly that this is not just about ratings. FOX, as of now, has the president's ear, he recruits his people from there, and allegedly talks to Hannity and others multiple times a week. And he watches all day every day, takes over their positions, repeats their talking points. 
Also, FOX also has an online presence and most of all, they are the ones creating the talking points. That get repeated way beyond initial viewership, but also on social networks etc - and on Trump's twitter feed. They actually create policy. In all these senses, FOX has a considerable amount of real, effective power. As a news station. One that does not care about being factual or accurate, but to rally up one side against the other.
And don't misread that, if Obama had called Maddow or O'Donnell (or whomever) every other day, made them advisors and had repeated their talking points etc. etc., I'd be quite bewildered too. That just did not happen. And also, though these are probably at least at times biased news as well, facts still do matter on those and they are not jsut engaging in some kind of over-political culture war like all those FOX hosts do.
Nah, FOX still is a propaganda channel and propaganda is bad news for democracy. I stand by that oversimmplified assertion.



 I (honestly) like that kind of answer. And I really hope you're right. I'd be happy to feel silly. If I'd be worried about that, oh boy.

Just one thing though. What I said is, imho, not really comparable to that Obama third term panic. That was just based on fully and completely made up 'fake news'. The reasons i listed did actually really take place. What it could lead to, that sure is speculation, but at least I assert they are not born out of completely thin air.

I didn’t mention Bobby Kennedy because of Eric and Ivanka. But you mentioned the DOJ as being a previously fairly independent body.

Liberals have been calling the FBI and CIA all kinds of awful things for decades. Not just individuals. Many say just awful things about the police, and again not just individuals. What about ICE?