Duke Tobin

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-28-2020, 01:03 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Ah I apologize, that does make sense then, I had misinterpreted what you were saying slightly. Your argument is that there was a time Tobin was good but he has lost his touch. I can buy that logic. I was thinking you were in the 'has always been garbage' camp.

I personally think he's had a string of bad luck. In the past 8 years is when the 1st round injury bug has come into play. The reaches for OL help and straying away from BPA has also been an issue in the past few drafts.. I'm not certain if Tobin has any say in that.

I'm sticking by my thoughts that Tobin is good at his job and that this draft was an indicator of that, but I see what you are saying.

All good.

Yeah, either he lost his touch or something. Maybe just got unordinarily lucky for a couple years? Don't know. I just know right now that the 4 year streak of losing seasons is because of 8 years of uninspiring/bad drafting and FA coming back to haunt them.

It seems like the Bengals drafted the best when they just went with whomever the "Big Board" consensus best pick was (in a position of at least a little need) and fell flat on their faces when they started trying to get clever by doing things like taking a perceived super value pick at a position they didn't need at the time (Ogbuehi/Fisher/Dennard/Hill/Hunt/Clarke/Willis).

(04-28-2020, 01:53 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) We all know Media/Fans control the Pro bowl/ all Pro teams. So just because a player doesn't get the recognition they deserve doesn't mean there not worthy of it 
2.) How are Mixon, Boyd, and Hubbard disappointments? I get Bates and Jackson but they have shown the ability to be elite in the past and there both still have a ton left in the tank.
3.) Please Eifert getting freak injuries isn't Tobin's fault. When Tyler was healthy we had an elite player. Just wish he wasn't snake bitten.

1. It becomes awfully easy to start calling part-time players like Lawson a "Pro Bowl Caliber" player if you start changing "Pro Bowl Caliber" mean "anyone that has a bit of talent".

2019: 42.7%
2018: 19.9%
2017: 41.9%

That's the amount of defensive snaps Lawson has played in his career. He's a talented role player with serious injury issues. Bates
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2. I wasn't as clear as I could have been. Boyd and Hubbard were in the "Good", Mixon was in the "Okay", and Jackson, Lawson, and Bates are in the "disappointments-with-potential". Jackson has absolutely 0 ball skills and struggled last year. Lawson can't stay healthy and is only a part time player, and Bates completely forgot how to tackle in his second year. They have potential, don't get me wrong, but they haven't put it together yet.
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3. Didn't say it was entirely Tobin's fault, but at the end of the day it is what it is and he has to own Ws and Ls just like a QB does even if his defense gives up a long TD or his WR lets a ball bounce off his hands and into a defender's for a pick 6.

(04-28-2020, 05:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Implying guys like Mixon, Boyd, and Hubbard are not really good players because they haven’t been voted to the Pro Bowl is downright silly. Especially in Mixon’s case, when he clearly should have been the year he led the AFC in rushing.

Boyd is not REALLY good because he's a #2 with a hard ceiling at #2. He can put up 1k yards for a losing team when he's forced into the #1 role, but he's very very clearly not a #1 in terms of ability. Even on a bad team with plenty of garbage time in a season where he was the #1 WR the whole year, he was the 25th WR in yardage in 2019. Are we going to call 25th Pro Bowl Caliber now? In the two wins, he had under 60 yards in both of them. In the 4 games last year where he had 100+ yards, the defense allowed an average of 30.25 points per game and they lost all 4.

Mixon is not REALLY good because he had 4 games under 2.0 YPC  last year and 8 under 4.0 YPC. He just feasted on running the ball a ton against the Browns and against the Ravens and Pats as they beat the everliving daylights out of the Bengals. Of his 1,137 yards (4.1 YPC), 308 yards (6.3 YPC) of them came in 2 games against the Browns. In non-Browns games last year he averaged just 3.6 YPC. He also had a 3.5 YPC rookie season. At this point his career averages pretty much make him a very apt comparison to Jeremy Hill after 3 years. Nobody said Jeremy Hill after 3 years was REALLY good. They both had just the 1 really good year.

Hubbard is pretty good, but I wouldn't call him really good yet. He went on a 9 game streak last year where he had just 1 sack. REALLY good players don't do that. He also needs to learn to attack the ball better. He could still grow, I guess, but here's not there yet.

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They're all three solid players, I am just not willing to agree that they are REALLY good players, or "Pro Bowl Caliber" players. I think that dilutes the term an awful lot. Like when people were calling Joe Flacco an "elite QB" for awhile there.