EPA Destroys Water Quality Records, Deceives Archivist

[Dill]

(08-11-2020, 12:53 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Obama lied a lot, period. So many things he ran on he went the other way once he was elected. He extended the patriot act, he even created an even worse bill called the NDAA which is a massive invasion of civil rights. He was supposed to be all about civil rights!! He went after reporters too --like Sheryl Atkinson for starters. But many others also. Obamacare sucks, plain and simple. I'm not against healthcare at all, but what he did is not sustainable. Then he handed out billions and billions of dollars to "green energy" companies and they were all out of business very shortly after. That is our hard earned tax dollars! Imagine how many poor people couldve benefited from that money? Why isnt that talked about more? And also, he was our first black president in a country where blacks only make up about 13% of the population. Why in the living heck did racial tension increase under his rule? Electing the first black president shouldve put the "America is racist" argument to bed, but instead it got 10 times worse. I listened to him. He was the most divisive president Ive ever seen or heard in my life. Ever. Trump is not even close to creating the racial division Obama did, its just the liberals are stuck and cant hear because of their hate. Obama was the real divider and it hurt our country. His economics also sucked, plain and simple. Nothing about America improved under him it just got more chaotic and worse. He was a liar and a fraud. I was all about Obama or at least the idea of him, but he turned out to be Bush version 2. Fk him. And now its coming out that he spied on Trump and tried to undermine an elected president and all of that russia garbage were just lies? I hope he goes to jail. We dont need that in this nation. 

Hey Bengaloo, sorry I am late getting back to this. It is a great post, a substantive response covering a wide range of issues I am interested in.

I'll have to respond in parts, so for the moment I just want to address your remarks on Obama. So far as I know, Atkissan's accusations were never substantiated, right? They are still just allegations. It is not clear from you post why Obamacare sucks. It still seems to me a good faith effort to improve healthcare in the US. Many can't do without it now. Many of its "bugs" stem from opposition and sabotage at the state level. 

I assume you are referring to the Solyndra scandal when you speak of billions to energy companies that went out of business. That seems like another good faith effort to jump start a green energy industry. Some gambles don't work out. O saved Chrysler, not Solyndra.

As far as putting the "America is racist" argument to bed, I think I have addressed that. No one should be surprised at "blacklash." Just because many or even most Americans no longer find race an in issue for politicians doesn't mean that all are on board now. People who were angry that we had a black president with a Muslim name--why can't they be responsible for "dividing" the country? I am still not getting an example of what you "heard" from him that sounded racially divisive. If someone asks me why I think Trump is racially divisive, I can point to statements about Mexican rapists and his current insistence on calling the COVID virus the "China virus." And many more examples, like his support for birtherism. But you say Obama was worse, so what statements or actions would you offer as evidence? Provide examples of what liberals "cannot hear."

The "economics sucked" is also not clear, as he inherited a terrible recession, but by 2010 had the country on a path of recovery, recording job growth and an expanding economy every quarter thereafter. Trump inherited this upward trend.

Finally, it is not "coming out" that Obama spied on Trump and tried to undermine an election and the "Russia garbage" was just lies. That's pretty much a narrative limited to certain news sources like Fox and OAN, and Trump, Guiliani, and Barr. For the last two years, it's been "breaking news" which never really breaks because there is no "there" there. We've had half a dozen threads on this conspiracy.