Why does he refuse to condemn them?

[hollodero]

(10-02-2020, 04:40 PM)PhilHos Wrote: If you're talking about the debate, yes. I'm not saying that his words are ALWAYS twisted, but when he goes out of his way to mention non neo Nazis and non white supremacists in saying "fine people" but people are still trying to say he called neo Nazis and white supremacists "fine people".

There's no denying Trump says some stupid shit. A lot of the time. But there's also no denying that people twist his words sometimes, too. 

I'm not denying that. At all. I feel Charlottesville is not a good example for that dynamic, for there he displayed many of the traits I also see in the Proud Boys example. Just as a tiny example, he lied about who had a permit to protest and who hadn't, his whole condemnation mainly focused on Antifa and the media, again David Duke praised him for his condemnation, again it was given in a form that reasonably allowed David Duke and others to do so, again he never found any real passion like he finds when condemning the left or Antifa or Comey etc. or someone he really takes issue with, again he could not bring himself to simply say "I do not want your support, David Duke etc." I mention all that not in convincing you, there can be disagreement on that, I know many fine people have a different take. As for who he called fine people, it is difficult to really say for me. But imho you went a bit too far when saying "fred makes shit up". He did not.

(10-02-2020, 04:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I've said: People with an agenda heard it the way they wanted.

Yes, to me Trump's condemnations come across as lip service, and in that the addressed group take it as such, as "something he had to mutter for the PC and media people", but something he doesn't really mean. This is my take on this, I also feel he does that deliberately. I think this take is very much legitimate, while I don't claim to have the only legitimate take on this. But I often find it a bit simple to attribute this take to "my bias" or "my agenda" that clouds my judgment and makes me primitive and intellectually impaired. You know, the way you argue with everyone percieved as leftist or liberal.