11-19-2020, 11:50 PM
(11-19-2020, 09:18 PM)Dill Wrote: Can't figure out which buddy throws out the "racist" term at the drop of a hat. Bpat or Dino? Bengalzona? Hollo has "called it out" numerous times?
Oh, I know, because you never seem to "see it" when it happens. Fort someone who's on here constantly you appear to miss a lot.
Quote:I think you should want to hear my response, especially about the "normalizer" and "supporter" distinction.
Please continue.
Quote:A Trump supporter at a rally who cheers when he reads the snake poem is certainly supporting Trump, but without normalizing his behavior. A lot of supporters "perform" his abnormal (for a politician) behavior right along with him. If you tell them the behavior is not normal, they'll happily agree because they didn't want "normal": they wanted someone who would "shake things up."
OK.
Quote:There are non-supporters, though, who don't vote for Trump and don't attend his rallies, and are often willing to grant he is a boor, yet when his racism, misogyny or authoritarian behavior are criticized, they step forward to criticize the critics. When Trump critics remark on chaotic and unprecedented turnover of WH staff, and the demeaning public treatment of those fired, these non-supporters are quick to remind us that there is turnover in every administration and Trump has a right to have people who will carry out his views, not their own. His Muslim ban was "not really" a Muslim ban, and so not really a very public attempt to scapegoat a world religion. Complaints about insults to allies, and cabinet picks with no experience and nepotism, are just "butthurt" because Hillary lost. See: "normal" nothing really out of the ordinary here. Supporters do this too, of course.
This argument is lacking as it ignores the very real possibility that the criticism of Trump's critics can be wholly justified. You deal in a lot of absolutes for someone who claims to pride themselves on the quality and subtlety of their arguments.
Quote:So clearly people can normalize Trump's behavior without supporting him, just as they can support him without normalizing it. It would be absurd to argue that people can only normalize Trump's behavior if they are supporters.
Alternatively it would be equally absurd to assume everyone criticizing Trump isn't guilty of what they are accused of in return. You don't "see it" just like you don't "see it" when your friends casually throw around serious accusations. I'd hesitate to say this was intentional, but the evidence that it is seems to be mounting.
Quote:Perhaps the ground of this normalizing behavior is that the people who don't support Trump also don't think he has done much damage at all to the U.S. government and its individual institutions from the military to the CDC to the post office to the State Department. Nor has he done much damage to civil discourse; Dems are "just as bad." From that perspective, Trump critics who insist the damage be publicly recognized are just acting out hyperbole, or "hypocrisy"--whattabout the Clintons? From their perspective they are fair and balanced, standing in the middle. Both sides do it, whatever "it" is. And that definitely helps one side.
Again, absolutism, allowing for no distinctions in the middle. One could vote for Trump because they think Biden will implement policies making the populace solely dependent on the government. One could vote for Trump because they dislike Biden's extreme stance on the 2nd amendment. In short there are numerous reasons to vote for Trump over Biden over solid policy disagreements. One can vote for Trump while holding their nose because the tend to agree with more of his positions than Biden, but not really support him beyond that. You don't allow for this as you, by your own admission, see people who vote for Trump as credulous rubes. Which brings me to my last point, there are people who vote for Trump because they dislike people like you and want to thumb their nose at you. In short, you perpetuate what you claim to despise, but I'm sure you don't "see that" either.
