Presidential Pardons - when would you call it corrupt?

[hollodero]

(01-21-2021, 12:44 PM)Dill Wrote: I agree that we are currently in the situation described by the bolded--with the corollary that "both sides" don't do it equally.

I didn't claim both sides do it equally. I participated too long in your debates to reach that conclusion. One can easily say "one side is worse" and I'd agree with that on a generalized basis - but that doesn't mean the other side are full of saints and do-rights.

(01-21-2021, 12:44 PM)Dill Wrote: Trump never had to "seek dialogue" and the like for sure, but that was never really a formula for winning and holding power. I still think of his win as a kind of freak event, dependent more on depressing the Hillary vote than really rallying a majority of the nation. 

He came quite close the second time around though. Not with a majority of the nation, sure, but that isn't necessary. 50% don't vote anyways and most states do not really matter. A few people in a few states, that's all it takes and took.
Trump barely, barely (with less than, or around, 1% behind Biden in some crucial states) lost too many moderate conservatives than he could win radicalized ones, while at the same time getting more total votes than the last time around. That is not a repudiation.

(01-21-2021, 12:44 PM)Dill Wrote: I should add that everyone has base values/ideals which he or she would be unwilling to compromise.

Well, of course. I don't even think it's about finding common ground all the time, but rather about deradicalization. Which, imho, can not be achieved as long as the same environment and the same system is in place that brought you to this point in the first place.
Imho, opposition to Biden will be fierce real soon, he will get accused of evilness and misdeeds, he will get radically opposed and blocked, there will be impeachment attempts, he will get called having dementia and being a criminal and a tool of China and taking money from everywhere and hating America and bowing to his globalist masters and then some, and all that wil not be fringe within the conservative spectrum. Those who do not participate in that will be fringe. Like they were under Trump's reign.

And things like bad optics or reality or truth will not play any part in that process - something I feel many people, eg. those that still think Trump was merely an aberration, are still not grasping fully, that it's not about any of that any longer. Case in point, corrupt pardons don't matter too. Not when a crucial mass are easily and more than willingly convinced that the election was stolen or that Russian interference or the impeachment was a hoax etc. "Compromise" does not matter, there is none to be had. One, imho, could slow the radicalization down, but that will be difficult as long as most right-leaning people hate CNN or the fredtoasts of this world more than they could ever despise one of their own for whatever. And of course also as long as many from the other side throw everyone in one of the two pots of "you're with us" or "you're a deplorable". Which, imho, happens all the time and appalls more and more of said moderates as well.

And the "pragmatic compromiser" will adapt like all the Grahams, or get primaried and thrown out, the critical mass for that is reached, just like it was reached in the primaries Trump won. Just look at all those senators or house members or conservative thinkers that were thought to be that constructive and compromising type. They all left or were thrown out (except for Romney for whatever reason) and can now comment on CNN, to no avail.