Politics and Religion

[hollodero]

(03-02-2021, 04:32 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Bear in mind, when I'm using "clownish" I'm not using in a way to diminish (I don't view it as extremist > clownish).  I just think that's a more accurate way to describe his personality, as are a lot of other words (egomaniac, selfish, phony, blowhard, etc.)

The reality is, if you remove his inability to present himself in a better light (by being more polished, by showing/feigning empathy, by thinking or before speaking) his actual polices and stances are far from extreme as it relates to the party.  He's just such an asshole that it presents itself as such.

What we were talking about was how he secured the nomination.  Well, for the answer you have to look at the primaries.  He spent most of his time attacking the other career politicians in the GOP.  Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, and Carson.  Voters decided they wanted an outsider, and someone who wasn't afraid to give their honest opinion.

I don't think that's entirely different than what we saw with the Democrats and Sanders.  Sanders represented someone from the outside even though he had years of service.  He spoke to a lot of people in his party that differed from the typical bs you hear from the likes of Hillary Clinton ("I keep a bottle of hot sauce in my purse at all times".)

As I'm writing this I'm tiring.  I definitely do not want go out of my way to defend Donald Trump, and I releaze that's what this is going to be perceived as, whether I like it or not.  Nor do I want to go to bat for the people that stormed the capital, or the idiots who don political swag or make this as "Team ____" or a club.

All I'm trying to do is to get back to my initial point.  The majority of Republicans are not Trumpers, or cult members, or anything of the sort.  Just like the majority of Democrats aren't Antifa, or want the police abolished.

I disagree with some of that. I apparently have to add that this does not mean I percieve you as defending Donald Trump or Capitol riots, or of being in a cult, or any of these things you feared I would. I didn't and I don't. I'm not sure how I gave you reason to believe I would.

What I disagree on is this: Maybe Trump's policies are not that extreme (though I would have something to say about a family separation policy and then some), but his rhetorics were, his appeal was, his conduct was. He wasn't just an asshole. He was an asshole with particularly inflammatory rhetorics, a dangerous demagogue that had talked about all kinds of dark conspiracies, was deep into the birther lie and so on and so forth. You can't just take some similarities to Sanders and call him the same phenomena. There is a major, vast difference between the two, and you can't honestly compare a Trump situation to a Sanders situation and just leave this vast difference out or your argument.
Or in short, if Bernie had acted and talked just like Trump, he would not have been so attractive.

See also your last paragraph - a difference is still that Democrats did not vote an Antifa member their presidential nominee, and they would not do so. Republicans voted for Trump as their guy though - and apparently would do so again.


Lastly, to claim Trump's appeal was from being honest... I might see why you would say that (he sure wasn't overly into PC for example), but still, he demonstrably is a habitual liar, about matters big and small, he lies constantly about everything. I see that as an observable truth that one really only can overlook if one deliberately ignores it.