03-09-2021, 07:52 PM
(03-09-2021, 01:42 PM)hollodero Wrote: Sorry for riding this rather moot point, but I really wonder who they is and what they said exactly that made you so tense on that issue, in fact so tense that you seem to have little willingness to answer the PR question from any other perspective than this one.
Yeah, I tried to find the article I read in which Schumer flat out acknowledged it as a power grab, but I honestly can't find it. If that negates the obvious motivation for this from the Democratic party for you then I guess so be it. I did find an interesting article on it written during the Trump administration.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/25/the-politics-and-history-of-the-d-c-statehood-vote/
Quote:They have decided for statehood very recently. I think that superseeds past referendums in determining their will. When did they last express being against it? 22 years ago, as far as I can tell?
- Oh yeah, regarding the GOP and suppression, that is a fair counterpoint. It stops being one though if the GOP still blocks statehood, for just as partisan reasons as the other party applies in wanting statehood.
They've actually rejected it numerous times in the past. Five to be exact.
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/511160-doj-rejects-statehood-for-puerto-rico-so-do-puerto-ricans
Quote:Participating in elections is a citizen's fundamental right though, and representation, that's the right I was talking about.
In no way did I advocate letting anyone in who wants it. But Puerto Ricans are US citizens, you made them US citizens, and so yeah they get to want certain things that are fundamentally tied with citizenship.
Well, in reality they have all of these things, if they reside in the US. As to the rest, I get the argument, I've never disagreed with the basic point. I just don't like the naked power grab behind the push for it now.
Quote:Colonialism is not fundamentally tied to treating people awfully. But yeah, making decisions for them and having them have no say in it, withholding fundamental rights, and claiming that's not all that bad for we treat them real nice, that is a colonial power's approach. Contrasting a democracy's approach, where there's no doubt every citizen gets representation in Congress and gets to vote for the nation's leader.
They have their own, sperate government. They get to vote for that. You can't credibly make a case for them being exploited and disenfranchised based solely on that.
Quote:You treat them as half citizens somehow. They get some goodies, like their passport and eeverything, but at a certain point they need to be content and show some modesty, even if they are withheld some rights fundamentally tied with citizenship.
That's a disingenuous way of putting it, especially as they have their own autonomy in numerous ways.
https://welcome.topuertorico.org/government.shtml
The very first line from the government's own website;\
Puerto Rico is a self-governing commonwealth in association with the United States.
The underlined is rather germane to the discussion at hand.
(03-09-2021, 06:24 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Yeah, I kind of wonder, too. Kind of like how every complaint about Trump was Democrats trying to reverse the 2016 election was by Republicans. The only time I've heard of it is from Republicans complaining why they don't want DC, Puerto Rico or Guam to become US states. Democrats may have said it, but I haven't seen or heard them say it.
May have said what? That they want these things because it helps them? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that no one ever said that. Do you think they would be pushing for these things if those places would likely elect GOP leaning Senators?
