Jonah Williams’ shoulder injury likely predates time with Bengals

[BengalChris]

(07-03-2019, 09:19 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Antonio Bryant was a free agent coming off a season cut short by a knee injury. He passed his team physical with team doctors and never played again after the first day of training camp because of the same knee.

Duece Lutui wasnt cleared to play by Bengals doctors. Goes right back to Arizona and passes their physical.

Drew Brees wasnt cleared to play by the Dolphins. The Saints doctors cleared him and the rest as they say is history. Nick Saban would probably still be coaching in the NFL if he had Drew Brees.

Gaines Adams dropped dead at home from cardiomyopathy after playing three seasons in the NFL because it wasn't detected in high school, college, the combine, or during his annual team physicals. Plural.

1) The NFL doesn't have a uniform standard of what conditions are disqualifying so it varies from team to team.

2) The team doctors are the same doctors that conduct the combine physicals.

3) Physical exam tests like a Lachman's test for ACL instability are subjective. A McMurry's test for a meniscal tear only has a sensitivity of about 30% which means 70% of the time it is undetected during the physical exam.

4) Interpreting the various shades of black, white, and grey of an MRI is also subjective.   MRIs have false positives and false negatives. I had shoulder surgery for a false positive for a labrum and rotator cuff tear, but when the did surgery they found neither of them were torn. It was just inflammation which was so bad it looked like a tear. False negatives give the impression everything is okay when it isn't and delays definitive surgery. Some conditions like a sports hernia or a small meniscal tear can evade detection with imaging and require surgery to finally make a diagnosis.

5). You act like you these exams are infallible and incapable of missing something, but that's just not true despite everyone's best efforts.

If you knew as much as you think you do, you would understand why the Antonio Bryant case is completely relevant and you wouldn't be completely lost. But, being completely lost isn't uncommon for you.

(07-03-2019, 10:20 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So in layman terms you are stating that Jonah Williams had a Labrum tear that was bad enough to require surgery to repair it yet the medical staffs at the University of Alabama and the medical staffs at the combine were unable to detect that injury. Does that put all your jargon into basic terms well enough?

Which would mean as well that you believe that the physician who wrote the Tribune article is the only medical person in the sports industry that noticed Williams wearing the strap at Alabama and was the only one clever enough to consider that there was a possible shoulder ailment. Does this also sum up your premise?

I'm sure you both realize that all of this doesn't really matter much at this point. We picked Jonah Williams (and I loved the pick) and he's ours now. Possibly the team and/or other teams had an inkling that there might be something with his shoulder going into the draft and maybe not. We'll probably never know.



What might be more interesting is that the Bengals have selected players in the 1st round with existing injuries several times lately. Not counting Williams cause I don't know that they knew, we have Price, Ross and Ogbuehi who were all selected with existing injuries. Prices was an injury from the combine and he started 10 games as a rookie. Ogbuehi appeared sparingly in 5 games as a rookie before finally going on IR near the end of his rookie year. Ross appeared in 3 games his rookie season, hid a second injury, then went on IR the last few games of his rookie year.

Then besides those, the following 1st round picks also missed their entire rookie years with injuries sustained in OTAs or the pre-season: Kirkpatrick, Dennard, Jackson and now Williams.

Since 2012 of the Bengals' 1st round selections only Zietler, Eifert and Price played in more than 5 games during their rookie seasons and we've had 9 1st round selections during those 8 years.

In other words, 2/3rds of our 1st round picks couldn't even play in more than 5 games their rookie seasons. That's pretty astonishing I believe.

Why is this? I have no idea!

Is this more than other teams? I believe so, but honestly I haven't checked.


If we go back before 2012, we had AJ Green in 2011 who was amazing. Then in 2010 we Gresham who played in 15 games, starting 10 as a rookie. In 2009 we had Andre who started 1 game and played in 6 total games as a rookie. The three years before those we drafted Rivers (played in only 7 games as a rookie), Leon Hall and JJoe. Both Hall and JJoe played in 16 games their rookie seasons.

We've been getting more injured guys in the 1st lately, that's all I know for sure.