12-19-2023, 05:59 PM
(12-19-2023, 05:07 PM)Dill Wrote: You always start with how I make you feel.
Declaring your statement to be pompous is not my sharing my feelings.
Quote:No "admission" here that I am "attempting" to draw equivalence, etc. You can't just manipulate your way to a valid conclusion by thanking me for what I have not "admitted" instead of addressing the reasons for my statement. Talking "as if" I had done that is just a form of gaslighting.
Except you literally tried to draw an equivalence between the IDF and Hamas. It's literally right there for all to see.
Quote:My argument is that no one can accurately describe, understand, and evaluate events on the ground while adhering to your "no-criticism-of-the-IDF-but-let-your-imagination-fly-with-Hamas" rule. The "equivalence" charge is just an attempt to block criticism and to control discussion by threat of accusation rather than rational, fact-based argument.
Criticism of the IDF is fine. Equating their actions to the murdering, torturing, rapist, dogs of Hamas is not.
Quote:Actually, I do consider shooting people trying to surrender a war crime, and at the same time NOT the equivalent of planned torture and and gang rape. But since I am not making that equivalence I don't need to answer for it. Again, your premise here is that MENTION of IDF war crimes is AUTOMATICALLY "equivalence."
No, drawing an equivalence is. Like accusing the IDF of deliberately bombing a hospital in an attempt to make them Hamas' equal regarding treatment of civilians.
Quote:So just another attempt to enforce your "no criticism of IDF" rule--a rule which blocks accurate description and understanding of what's actually happening in this war. It's possible that you just don't get this "accuracy first" standard, and for you all is blame from the get go; so if someone mentions IDF bad behavior, you sincerely cannot see anything but "equivalence!" and rush to prove Hamas is worse; or it's possible you do know, but don't want that standard near this topic. I can't tell.
I'll repeat, criticism is fine. When it's a one way street and it's done to mitigate the actions of Hamas or draw an equivalence with them it is not.
Quote:Another firm "NO" here.
Shooting civilians first and asking questions later does not, under current IHL, fall "directly into the realm of accidental killing" any more than does the death of women and children forced to act as human shields or intentionally shelling a refugee camp.
Ohhh, you were there and know exactly what the soldiers saw? I'm impressed. Sadly, when your enemy dresses in civilian clothing and deliberately embeds itself in the civilian populace these kind of tragic accidents are bound to happen. You're alleging that the IDF soldiers saw civilians, knew they were civilians and thought "eff it" and shot them anyways. This is why you rightfully face criticism for your posts on the IDF, and Israel in general.
Quote:Yeah "far leftists will blah blah blah" Can you not, for one post, simply follow an argument and address it as argument without the partisan emotional drama? If you disagree with the priority I place on accurate description over repetitive angry condemnation, then calmly explain in rational and factual terms why that priority is misplaced--preferably without sharing your feelings with "pleasure" or substituting them for proof. Explain, in rational terms, why Hamas' "celebrated killing" should halt any fuller discussion of what is happening to civilians in the war zone. Simply claiming someone is an "apologist false equivocator" for taking in the whole picture does not "expose" anything. Even if you repeat it three times, it remains baseless accusation. God, if only political arguments were really that easy.
I know an officer who shot a younger teenager. The minor had a airsoft gun but had painted the orange tip of the barrel black. When he found out he had shot an actually unarmed teenager he was devastated. According to your twisted and facile logic he is just as guilty of killing an unarmed person as an officer who deliberately and knowingly target an unarmed youth and killed them.
Despite your best efforts your bigotry and bias against Israel bleeds through in this very post. You assume, in the underlined statement above, that the IDF soldiers saw civilians surrendering and thought it would be a good time to get some target practice in. Soldiers accidentally fire on their own comrades during a military action, this is especially true in urban warfare. Would you make the same assumption if an IDF squad fired on and killed three of their own soldiers? No, you wouldn't. But you did here, and you did it because you are horribly biased against Israel. Your entire posting history on this subject screams your bias.
I'm sure you're happy now, as the thread is no longer about the women who were kidnapped, raped and murdered by Hamas. You've successfully deflected the thread into an anti-Israel/anti IDF thread. Congratulations, your task is achieved!
