5 - 0 vs the NFC, 0 - 5 vs the AFC North.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-26-2023, 06:18 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Lol. Where did you learn math?

The difference between 2-14 and 6-10 is 60%!!!

No splitting hairs Marvin inherited a horrible team. 

Your venom should be against Dick LeBeau. 

You should add some context, BY.

Sure, that team was 2-14, but there were tons of talented young players. Chad, TJ, Rudi, a good o-line, Justin Smith, Brian Simmons and the rights to draft Carson Palmer. Not to mention an owner with tons of cap space and a willingness to spend to reshape the defense.

Meanwhile, the team that Zac inherited was 6-10 but the players were heading in the opposite direction. AJ Green, Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap, a bad o-line, etc.

Those guys were close to washed and also pretty disgruntled. Imo, Marvin started with a better team and a lower bar for success. He was also more set up for a quick turnaround.

(12-26-2023, 08:30 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: What is great,
Coach 1 has 4 SB appearances with 0 wins, 10 playoffs in 24 years, 11-9 in playoffs 535 winning percentage 
Coach 2 has 2 SB appearances with 1 win, 10 playoffs in 15 year, 12-9 in playoffs , 623 winning percentage,  
Coach 3 has  1 SB appearances with 1 win, 10 playoffs in 15 years, 11-9 in playoffs 617 winning percentage 
Coach 4 has  4 SB appearances with 0 wins, 8 playoffs in 18 years  11-8 in playoffs 561 winning percentage 
Coach 5 has 2 SB appearances with 1 win ,  10 playoffs in 16 years, 8-9 in playoffs  630 winning percentage
Coach 6 has 3 SB appearances with 2 wins , 10 playoffs in 19 years, 11-9 in playoffs 569 winning percentage 
Coach 7 has 0 SB appearances,  14 playoffs in 21 years 5-13 in playoffs 613 winning percentage 

3 coaches in HOF Cowher (2), Levy (4), Parcells (6) 
2 coaches not in HOF  Schottenheimer (7) , Reeves (1)
2 active Tomlin (5) , Harbaugh (2).
All are hof consideration careers, none have great playoff records, Tomlin is for sure HOF career consideration as is Harbaugh when you compare them with the rest of that list.

Also sure the cupboard was not bare for Tomlin but give credit were credit is due , he took a 8-8 team  to 10-6 then won SB and 15 starters in 2008 team were not on 2005 and if you want to go to 2011 team only 7 remained that lost in SB. I agree he has not maintained that level of success but how look above at that excellent coaches listed it is hard in NFL to win at high level year in and year out and even make SBs.

Fair counter. That said.

1. The last Cowher team was 8-8, sure, but only 1 season removed from winning a championship. A rebound was likely just looking at who they had.

2. Who were those remaining players and coaches? Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, Willie Parker, Heath Miller, James Harrison, Troy Polamalu, Lamar Woodley, Ike Taylor, Ryan Clark, Brett Keisel, James Farrior, Aaron Smith, etc were all drafted by Cowher. Look at that list, brother. That's pretty much all of their great players. Obviously Tomlin had to bring some of his own guys, but this was undeniably the core of Tomlin's Super Bowl group.

Then you had the legend Dlck LeBeau coaching the defense.

Tomlin still hasn't done anything since that core started to dry up. The record speaks for itself and points directly to Tomlin not being able to accomplish anything great without Cowher's team.

(12-26-2023, 01:38 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: That is a good point.  I forgot about the first Dalton year which was really bad.  But still, it appears the rest of the North has figured us out.  We played Baltimore kinda tough both games (before Burrow got hurt) but the other 3 division games, we really got pushed around.


I think Zac has an opportunity to redefine himself and use the offseason to beat the other 3 at their own game.  Good hard-nosed football with a balanced offense that can run the ball.  We've got the best QB in the division so I think it would actually help Joe.  I'd let Higgins walk and use the savings to dedicate to the run game and defense.

If you can't win your division, a Super Bowl win will be even more unlikely.  

Agree 100% that the division has figured us out. We'll figure a lot out about Zac next year.

Tbh, I feel like a great coach would've adjusted this year.

(12-26-2023, 05:55 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: I give credit to Mr. Joe Burrow >>> Andy Dalton




What is ZT's record without Burrow...

The Bengals were rebuilding in Zac's first couple years. I wouldn't use that record against him.

This year, Zac is 3-2 without Burrow, and mind you, that's with a guy who has been a practice squad QB for 4 years.