Bengals Turned Down 2nd Rounder

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-13-2017, 09:28 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I usually agree with a lot of your posts, but I think the FO has been awesome since Carson publicly crapped on them.. To address the guys you listed as negatives that they left....

- MJ: There's a thread on MJ a few posts down pointing out how not good or impactful he is. The Bucs paid him a ton, the Bengals elected to pay Dunlap a ton. Who got the better end of that deal? The Bengals by far! MJ is now back on the team after he didn't earn the contract he was given and  a lower rate. WINNER: Bengals

- ZEITLER: You know who pays Guards $60 million? Bad teams pay guards $60 million dollars. Good teams usually don't. The Browns (bad team) had to pay through the nose and it will kill them when it comes to signing actual talent where it SHOULD be expensive. Gs are NOT that expensive in the NFL compared to many other positions. The Bengals were smart here to not pay a king's ransom for a G. Look at how things played out... A UDFA is going to start at G for the Bengals this season and he's a good player. A 4th rounder (Bolling) is going to start at the other G. He's a very good player. WINNER: Bengals

Paying a guard THAT much would have crushed paying Burfict (WAYYYYY better and more important than Zeitler) and Eifert (see Burfict comment). It was the right move.

Joe Thuney was a 3rd round Guard and played every snap for the Patriots last year. THAT'S how you bring in a Guard. Not pay them $60 MILLION.

J.Jo: Really good player. Would have probably excelled big time under Zimmer. The Bengals offered the same money, Joseph chose to leave. Can't help that. Looking at the statistics, Adam Jones has been a considerably better player over the same time period. So, Joseph leaving and Hall staying, coupled along with the growth of the 2ndary in general didn't really hurt or have a negative effect. This worked out in the Bengals favor as well or is at least a push (speaking on field.. not off field issues)
WINNER: Bengals

Justin Smith: Had a career revival in San Fran as a 3-4 end. The Bengals never used him properly and a lot of his career was wasted next to sub par players and the Bengals not realizing his strengths and playing to them. Smith grossly under performed in his last 2 years in Cincinnati and there was no real reason to continue to pay him the way they were based on his production in the Bengals scheme. WINNER: 49ers & Justin Smith Tough to call the Bengals a loser here, however, given the above mentioned reasons Smith never flourished. The Bengals did the right thing and the 49ers got the right result.

Reggie Nelson: Can't pay a player that age to stick around. You can't do it. I agree with what the Bengals did in Paying Jones and letting Nelson go. They couldn't pay them both. Reggie Nelson was a fabulous player for the Bengals and a STEAL when they traded for him for a song. They got the best out of Reggie Nelson, but the Bengals had talent behind him and were getting old on defense. in 2016, the Benglas had the OLDEST starting defense in the NFL. They need to get and stay young and keep (read: PAY) guys in their prime. Reggie Nelson's prime is behind him and George Iloka's is in front. WINNER: PUSH


On the FA Front:


The Bengals have done a great job choosing and picking the right guys to keep and bringing in filler around them. Look at how they've maneuvered through the cap and kept actual starts: Green, Dalton, Atkins, Dunlap, Burfict, Bernard, the Safeties, DreKirk, Jones, etc. Those have been awesome players with bright futures compared to the guys above (save for Zeitler and JJoe) I can't think of many FAs who have gone to any team and just killed it or put them over the top. Did the Doplphins signing Mike Wallace, or the Redskins getting DeShawn Jackson make any difference at all? What about Mario WIlliams to the Bills? Julius Peppers make any kind of monster difference in Greenbay or Chicago? How about Josh Norman? NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE. Those teams all were about the same. I think if you look, that is going to be the case 95 times out of 100 big name FAs. 

That's typically NOT how you win in the NFL. Look at the teams like the Pats, Steelers, Cowboys, Packers, Seahawks, and other perennially successful franchises and see what FAs they bring in. They rarely pay anyone big money. It's just not smart. 

Solid points....and I do agree that they have most certainly gotten better since 2010.....but I'll address my stance a little more detailed on a couple of your points to give a better perspective.

MJ....agreed, but the fact remains, there was tag money available that year if my aging memory is correct.  He was coming off a career year, and really had no one to replace him.  Maybe he was enough to get us over the hump, maybe not.  The point I was making was we let him go with no real, viable backup plan in place.

Zeitler.....my point is, and always has been, you didn't have to pay him 60 mil if you had negotiated an extension prior to 2016.  Also, G is becoming more and more important in today's game with all of the movement in regards to pulling that Gs do these days.  Again, no solid backup plan in place.  Although, Hopkins looked fairly good Friday.  You say you keep your own, then, instead of negotiating an extension for your home grown talent, you let them walk.  Maybe it was a good decision, maybe not, (time will soon tell us) but don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining....

JJo....seems I remember more guaranteed was offered in Houston, or something along those lines, that sweetened the pot for Joseph.  It's been a while, and I'm just too lazy to research it...lol.  I can somewhat agree it was a push....although JJo probably doesn't get us a 15 yarder against Pitt in the WC game.  At the end of the day, I'd rather have had him vs Pacman's antics....on and off the field.

J. Smith...I can mostly agree with you here, I just used him as an example of someone they let go.

Nelson.....had another good year in Oakland, saved a game with an INT, was coming off a league leading year in INTs when they let him walk.  I think they could have gotten a hometown deal, but it was my understanding they didn't even try.  You must admit, the back end of the defense looked WAY out of sync in the first half of the season, and Williams was underwhelming back there.  I give the advantage to the Raiders.

FA.....the only big name FA I would have even considered would have been Alex Mack.  You gotta admit, our line would have fared MUCH better with him anchoring it.  What I'm getting at.....how well did James Harrison serve us?  AJ Hawk?  Karlos Dansby?  Now, had we gotten a guy like Dansby earlier in his career, and shipped out the underperforming Rey Maualuga to make room for him, how much better could the middle of the defense been?  The Pats have brought in guys like Randy Moss, Corey Dillon, Derelle Revis, etc, and won Super Bowls.  You take a glaring weakness, and upgrade it, not stand pat or make it slightly worse.  Mike Wallace is a good example.  Did he make Miami a SB contender?  No, but by the same token, maybe a guy like Wallace opposite AJ Green is a winning combo.  The point is, you never know until you try.