09-16-2019, 09:50 AM
(09-16-2019, 08:07 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I hope this doesn't derail the thread and I will try my best in making it about the QB play overall and not strictly about Dalton. Try to do the same and not have this be a Dalton is great vs Dalton is terrible.
You are using the buzzwords of "taking a chance on an upside QB" I hate this expression with a passion. Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Kyler Murray, Dwayne Haskins and DeShaun Watson are who you mean and they are not more talented, they can just run faster with the football when they take off and run. The joke of Jackson being a RB is still true. This isn't because they are "better" QBs, they just have a 1 dimensional element that have to be taken into account when creating a defensive game plan.
This expression also doesn't take into account that while Jackson has found early success this season, he hasn't really been tested yet. Mahomes did have a season to remember, but his success is primarily on Reid and other players around him coming up big. Imagine if Travis Kelce was injured as much as Eifert has been. Imagine no running game, imagine only having 1 real threat at WR and that guy going through injuries, with 0 OLine protection, do you think Mahomes wins in Cincinnati? I don't think so. Mahomes "No look" pass last year, failed badly this year, what was worse is that he tried to force it just because he wanted the highlight real. When your team wins though, it is forgiven.
The reason QB play is so controversial is due to the way it is analyzed. SF had Alex Smith, they went to the NFCCG, the following year, Smith is injured, Kap is put into action, SF damn near wins the SB, the announcers said that "this is the difference between Smith and Kap, 1 is only going to get you to the NFCCG, the other will get you a SB appearance and with time a win".
Fast forward to the Eagles. Carson Wentz misses on a throw to Alshon Jeffery, the announcers put everything on Jeffery. Blaming him for not being where he is supposed to be, making his QB look bad, needing to be a better WR. A few games after getting hurt and Foles takes over, the Eagles attempt the same play with the same result. No more bashing Jeffery, Foles now is the one that needs to be better.
Odds are the Eagles will never win the SB with Wentz, yet Wentz is looked at as a vastly superior QB and that the only reason for him NOT being a SB winning QB is due to his injury. Why didn't they say the same thing about Foles as they did Kap?
Now to defend Dalton... Simms if wrong here. Dalton has in fact won games for us by himself. The most epic and memorable one was the Seattle game a few years ago. He has also lost games, but so does every other QB in the league, however when Dalton loses he is scrutinized far more than when he does take over games. If you actually go back and look at some of those close losses, you will see that Dalton wasn't the reason for the loss, and that he played good to even great. Again look at the most recent Seattle game. 418 yards 2 TDs, driving to FG range 2 more times. Sure the 1 fumble was heinous, the 2nd was oddly called a fumble and those are potential points, but Bullock missing a 45 yard FG doesn't help and was more instrumental to the loss than Dalton. His pass to John Ross to close the half was just as good as any other QB in the league. If that were Mahomes, even if KC lost, the announcers would be slobbering about that pass. Dalton? crickets.
You make some good points, and when I mean upside QB, I’m not strictly talking those names. For the future drafts, I’m just of the opinion that you shouldn’t aim for game managers, I think your guy really needs to be dynamic.
And I’m sorry, you don’t believe that a Watson, Mahomes, or Lamar Jackson are more talented than Andy Dalton? Lol sorry I just can’t take that seriously. They are WAY ahead of Dalton, yes Lamar included. People are scared to crown QBs so fast. I think Mahomes will be an all time great.
Yeah, Dalton has won us some games I agree.. I think Simms’ quote is really of a more often than not, he won’t win it for you. Which I’d agree with as well.
