Democrats losing all credibility in denial of overwhelming evidence..

[hollodero]

(03-23-2024, 01:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: They certainly aren't loyal followers in the same sense, but there aren't many (any?) GOP voters among them.

Nah there probably aren't, but what does that really prove? A party can be blamed for what their followers do in their name, not so much (not saying not at all) for everything people associated with the left or right do. BLM does not listen to democrats. There's still a responsibility to address it properly, which I would agree with you did not really happen, I thought so as well. But that's how far it goes. You directly compare not condemning violence harshly enough with someone actively endorsing and applauding violence. That just doesn't sound right.

(03-23-2024, 01:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: There are other areas where they don't compare that aren't nearly as flattering.  For one, sheer numbers, of both incidents and violence.  The Capitol, as awful as it was, was one single event.  The only death was a protestor.  Contrast that with the multiple fatalities at BLM riots, coupled with hundreds of millions of dollars in property damage.  The most common estimate I've seen is $2 billion.

Sure, it wasn't harmless and solely emphasizing the "mostly peaceful" aspect went too far at times in my opinion as well. If 2 billion is correct, that is a lot of destroying, no reason to downplay it in any way. I'm not argueing that, I mainly argue that the response of Trump/GOP to the Capitol rioters is far worse still than the arguably lacking response of democrats, imho demonstrably worse. For one, the former was an active coup attempt in my book, which has totally different ramifications for the very fabric of the country and democracy. Which probably would be clearer if the Trump-sticker-heavy Capitol rioters actually had gotten hold of Pelosi or Pence or whoever they were after. But, first and foremost, it's all the Trump flags and that Trump actually could have stopped it and didn't. This was happening on one party's (or one guy's, but there's little difference these days) behalf, unlike the BLM riots that no democrat could have stopped with a tweet.

(03-23-2024, 01:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I also have to disagree with your characterization of only "back benchers" in the Dem party supporting them.  Harris actively raised bail money for people arrested during the riots. There are entire compilations off prominent Dems failing to condemn the riots, and arguably encouraging them.  Hell, the mayor of Seattle actively encouraged the creation of the CHAZ/CHOP area, calling it a "summer of love".

https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/chop-seattle-mayor-walks-back-summer-of-love-comment

Multiple murders were subsequently committed in that area, btw.  

Yeah I happily condemn that guy for acting in a highly irresponsible manner. I'd still argue the mayor of Seattle is not that much of an influential figure than Trump (or any high ranking party member) is. Not to defend democrats too intensely, but when you try to fit every left leaning political currents into one party you will have certain fringes. I would extend the GOP the same courtesy for some of their more conspicuous figures. Just, when they undermine the whole party and are presidential candidates, they're somewhat more impactful than a mayor. Also, as apparent in your link said mayor faced serious backlash and had to walk back some comments (and does not run again), which does not exonerate him; still I'd wish Trump would have done the same or the GOP had done the same to Trump.

(03-23-2024, 01:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Equally at fault?  No, I'd agree with you there.  And, no, there isn't a direct comparison.  But there doesn't need to be to acknowledge the role both parties played in these incidents.  Nor does the inability to draw a direct comparison exonerate the Dems responsible, both by action and inaction, for what occurred in those riots.  As I said, there is no moral high ground for the Dems to seize here.  We both agree they should all be condemned, nor does one exculpate the other.

Well, you drew the direct comparison, and then the question whether these are really equal cases in terms of blame is a logical one to follow. I'd understand that moral high ground is a difficult concept. I'd rather argue Trump/the GOP, for reasons stated, have moral lowground.