Running QBs

[fredtoast]

Since 2011 Cam Newton leads all NFL QBs in rushing tds with 35. Andy Dalton and Andrew Luck are tied for second with 12 each.

Dalton is also 6th in rushing attempts by a QB, and 11th in rushing yards.


I realize that Kaepernick, Wilson, and Luck have played a lot fewer games than Dalton, but I don't care. This is my thread and I will spin it anyway I want.

[InTheJungleNow9]

Andy certainly shows some skill running the ball despite not being the fastest guy out there. He's no statue, that's for sure. So far this year his scrambling skills seem improved and I think we'll see less INTs as a result of him using his legs instead of just forcing the ball downfield when he has no one open.

[Utts]

(10-06-2015, 05:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since 2011 Cam Newton leads all NFL QBs in rushing tds with 35.  Andy Dalton and Andrew Luck are tied for second with 12 each.

Dalton is also 6th in rushing attempts by a QB, and 11th in rushing yards.


I realize that Kaepernick, Wilson, and Luck have played a lot fewer games than Dalton, but I don't care.  This is my thread and I will spin it anyway I want.

Enjoy your thread, Fred. The numbers you cite don't speak to Wilson's ability to extend garbage plays into first downs. That's where he can really break the back of a defense and demoralize you. Andy can run now and then, but he doesn't pose the kind of threat Wilson does when it comes to extending plays.

[GreenCornBengal]

In the NFL, knowing when to run is what is important. Andy runs when the defense allows it, which is all he needs to do. Being a smart runner is more effective than being a talented runner at this level of play (IMO).

[Johnny Cupcakes]

Blah blah blah...gopherstix.

[Anderson HOF]

(10-06-2015, 07:21 PM)Utts Wrote: Enjoy your thread, Fred. The numbers you cite don't speak to Wilson's ability to extend garbage plays into first downs. That's where he can really break the back of a defense and demoralize you. Andy can run now and then, but he doesn't pose the kind of threat Wilson does when it comes to extending plays.

at same time.. Wilson also because of trying to extend plays.. fumbles way more than Andy... 29 to 14 in the last 3 plus years..... 

Fumble could be his downfall against a solid secondary and a Dline that will be fresh all game and coming at him on Sunday

[Utts]

(10-06-2015, 09:34 PM)Anderson HOF Wrote: Fumble could be his downfall against a solid secondary and a Dline that will be fresh all game and coming at him on Sunday

Could be... I was just pointing out that the stat Fred is talking about doesn't speak to what I see as Wilson' greatest his asset, his ability to extend plays.

[fredtoast]

(10-06-2015, 07:21 PM)Utts Wrote: Enjoy your thread, Fred. The numbers you cite don't speak to Wilson's ability to extend garbage plays into first downs. That's where he can really break the back of a defense and demoralize you. Andy can run now and then, but he doesn't pose the kind of threat Wilson does when it comes to extending plays.

I am not saying that Dalton is among the greatest running QBs.  

I am just saying that he is underrated as a runner.

[*Synric*]

(10-06-2015, 10:48 PM)Utts Wrote: Could be... I was just pointing out that the stat Fred is talking about doesn't speak to what I see as Wilson' greatest his asset, his ability to extend plays.

You realize Wilson runs the bootleg more than any other QB in the NFL.

[Utts]

(10-06-2015, 11:25 PM)Synric Wrote: You realize Wilson runs the bootleg more than any other QB in the NFL.

Fascinating. 

[2MinutesHate]

Dalton runs just enough for me.  He doesn't get his head taken off either.  The running QB's are just a fad in my opinion.  Kaepernick is experiencing free fall as we speak.  I wouldn't be surprised if he's out of the league within 3-4 years.  Russell Wilson took some shots in the Lions game but I'd link he'll get more stationary down the road once those wheels of his start to slow down. 

It's bad enough to take the hits inside the pocket.  I wouldn't want my QB taking them down the field as well.  That's what we have the rough and tough RB's for!

[*Synric*]

(10-06-2015, 11:35 PM)Utts Wrote: Fascinating. 

Lol alot of his "great escapes" are a playaction bootleg. Don't get me wrong he runs the bootleg better than most QBs ( left or right which is very good) but it's still a bootleg.

[Shake n Blake]

Dalton isn't exactly a dual threat ala Newton, Wilson or even Luck, but he's athletic enough to rip off some good gains every now and then. His rushing TD numbers have always been good.

One rarely discussed positive to Dalton's game is that he doesn't fumble much. He's averaged 4.75 fumbles per season, which is really low compared to other 16 game starters. He's had some high profile ones, but he really doesn't put the ball on the turf much.

Of course, that could be because he gets rid of the ball so quickly and thus doesn't take many hits. Either way, it's definitely a good part of his game.

[fredtoast]

(10-07-2015, 12:04 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: One rarely discussed positive to Dalton's game is that he doesn't fumble much. He's averaged 4.75 fumbles per season, which is really low compared to other 16 game starters. He's had some high profile ones, but he really doesn't put the ball on the turf much.

Of course, that could be because he gets rid of the ball so quickly and thus doesn't take many hits. Either way, it's definitely a good part of his game.

The only QB who has fumbled less often than Dalton (from 2011 through the end of last season) is Matt Ryan, and he only has one less than Dalton (18 to 19).

Russell runs a lot more than Dalton, but the downside is that he had 31 fumbles in 48 games while Dalton had only 19 in 64 games.  He fumbles more than twice as often as Dalton.

[J24]

  Whats making him more dangerous is that he is keeping his eyes down field and looking to pass instead of just running for yardage.

[Joelist]

The whole "dual threat" QB is a fad that enraptures sportscasters and such but does not translate into championships. Note what happens when defenses adjust; unless the QB in question is also a true QB (in other words works effectively from the pocket) they do not prosper.

[djs7685]

(10-07-2015, 03:47 AM)Joelist Wrote: The whole "dual threat" QB is a fad that enraptures sportscasters and such but does not translate into championships. Note what happens when defenses adjust; unless the QB in question is also a true QB (in other words works effectively from the pocket) they do not prosper.

Exactly, I mean, when is the last time some nerd like Russell Wilson even sniffed a championship?!

[Joelist]

(10-07-2015, 08:49 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Exactly, I mean, when is the last time some nerd like Russell Wilson even sniffed a championship?!

Now go back and reread the post. Russell Wilson is a true QB; he can work effectively from the pocket. The QBs who are athletic runners first and passers second are the ones who flame out.

[djs7685]

(10-07-2015, 12:05 PM)Joelist Wrote: Now go back and reread the post. Russell Wilson is a true QB; he can work effectively from the pocket. The QBs who are athletic runners first and passers second are the ones who flame out.

Oh, gee. So what you're basically saying is that a QB that can't throw the ball isn't going to be a good QB?

Russell Wilson is constantly throwing out of the pocket and on the run, and he has been #1, #2, and #3 in rushing attempts by a QB in each of his seasons as a professional. If that doesn't count as a "dual threat QB", then nobody else in the league does.

Your exact quote was... "The whole "dual threat" QB is a fad that enraptures sportscasters and such but does not translate into championships."


Wilson is 100% a "dual threat QB", and he has won a championship and was very close to winning more. Your quote is inaccurate and nothing you can say will change that exact quote from being flat out wrong.

[fredtoast]

(10-07-2015, 12:12 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Your exact quote was... "The whole "dual threat" QB is a fad that enraptures sportscasters and such but does not translate into championships."

No.  This was his exact quote....

(10-07-2015, 03:47 AM)Joelist Wrote: The whole "dual threat" QB is a fad that enraptures sportscasters and such but does not translate into championships. Note what happens when defenses adjust; unless the QB in question is also a true QB (in other words works effectively from the pocket) they do not prosper.

See any difference?

I knew exactly what Joelist was talking about.  Ron Jaworski claimed Kaepernick was going to be the greatest QB in history.  ESPN practically worshipped Tim Tebow.  Robert Griffen was taken second in the draft.  All of these QBs were called great because they were supposedly "duel threat QBs".  Experts tried to claim that their running ability would make up for what they lacked in passing ability, but they were wrong.