Anti-union GOP

[NATI BENGALS]

One of the reasons I usually vote against the GOP.
https://www.10news.com/southern-governors-pressure-autoworkers-against-voting-for-unions

"On the eve of a vote on union representation at Volkswagen's Tennessee factory, Gov. Bill Lee and five other southern governors are telling workers that voting for a union will put jobs in jeopardy

Lee said in a statement that Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey, Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves, South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster and Texas Gov. Greg Abbott have signed on to the statement. The offices of Abbott, Ivey, Kemp and Reeves confirmed their involvement, and McMaster posted the statement on his website."

[Belsnickel]

(04-20-2024, 02:14 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: One of the reasons I usually vote against the GOP.
https://www.10news.com/southern-governors-pressure-autoworkers-against-voting-for-unions

"On the eve of a vote on union representation at Volkswagen's Tennessee factory, Gov. Bill Lee and five other southern governors are telling workers that voting for a union will put jobs in jeopardy

Lee said in a statement that Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey, Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves, South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster and Texas Gov. Greg Abbott have signed on to the statement. The offices of Abbott, Ivey, Kemp and Reeves confirmed their involvement, and McMaster posted the statement on his website."

When you have a system where corporate interests can use their leverage to make this happen this is not a surprise. This country has a long history of the people believing that it is the fault of their peers rather than the wealthy elite for all the woes of the nation. This is just one more example of the sort of messaging that pushes that mindset.

[samhain]

(04-20-2024, 06:37 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: When you have a system where corporate interests can use their leverage to make this happen this is not a surprise. This country has a long history of the people believing that it is the fault of their peers rather than the wealthy elite for all the woes of the nation. This is just one more example of the sort of messaging that pushes that mindset.

All accurate, but I think defaulting to the left to save unions is a dicey proposition.  NAFTA was largely supported by dems, although calling them "left wing" is a bit of a stretch.  The dorks and gamers out there microdosing toad semen and jerking off to furry videos while simultaneously developing AI tech are also largely left-wing in terms of personal politics.  They will do more to hurt unions and working people in the long-term than any MAGA flag-sucker could ever hope to.  

The left abandoned workers long ago, and they seem to have little intention of coming back to "save" them.  They most certainly want their votes.  They will take photos with Shawn Fain to give the appearance of solidarity.  In reality, they are just as complicit in the destruction of the middle class as Old Saint Ronnie Ray-Gun.

There's a reason Trump came to power, as much of an abortion as his existence is.  I'll always contend that he'd still be making reality shows and having people ghost write books for him if this nation had any desire to keep it's middle class intact over the last 3 decades.  I hate the red hats with a passion, but I get why they are mad.  They merely chose the wrong messiah.  They're fools for choosing any messiah at all, much less one as inept and indifferent as Trump.    

[*Nately120*]

(04-20-2024, 06:37 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: When you have a system where corporate interests can use their leverage to make this happen this is not a surprise. This country has a long history of the people believing that it is the fault of their peers rather than the wealthy elite for all the woes of the nation. This is just one more example of the sort of messaging that pushes that mindset.

It always seemed to me that welfare and unions got politically rubber banded together during the Reagan reprogramming of conservative reality, whereby you tell people that something is being exploited and they'll gladly throw the entire thing in the trash to prevent it.  Any time you have anything that "benefits people" you'll be able to convince people to get more upset about other people getting it than what it can do for them.

I have a buddy who got a job at Wal Mart between college semesters 20+ years ago and he was laughing about the anti-union video they had him watch during training.  Very nice of Wal Mart to warn him about the dangers of unions and the risk it would pose to his $7.15 an hour.

And living in the rusty parts of PA I know a lot of people worked union jobs, but are totally anti-union now, and it's the same as people who admitted to hiring illegals before, it comes down to "when I did it, it was good and right and ok and fair but now it has become crooked and wrong and needs to be done away with."  Spoiler alert, a bunch of people who live off of social security are going to try to make sure future generations don't get it because it'll be bad by then.  Oh well.

[Belsnickel]

(04-20-2024, 11:01 AM)samhain Wrote: All accurate, but I think defaulting to the left to save unions is a dicey proposition.  NAFTA was largely supported by dems, although calling them "left wing" is a bit of a stretch.  The dorks and gamers out there microdosing toad semen and jerking off to furry videos while simultaneously developing AI tech are also largely left-wing in terms of personal politics.  They will do more to hurt unions and working people in the long-term than any MAGA flag-sucker could ever hope to.  

The left abandoned workers long ago, and they seem to have little intention of coming back to "save" them.  They most certainly want their votes.  They will take photos with Shawn Fain to give the appearance of solidarity.  In reality, they are just as complicit in the destruction of the middle class as Old Saint Ronnie Ray-Gun.

There's a reason Trump came to power, as much of an abortion as his existence is.  I'll always contend that he'd still be making reality shows and having people ghost write books for him if this nation had any desire to keep it's middle class intact over the last 3 decades.  I hate the red hats with a passion, but I get why they are mad.  They merely chose the wrong messiah.  They're fools for choosing any messiah at all, much less one as inept and indifferent as Trump.    

I don't disagree at all. I mean, it took no time at all for the Democratic party to start leaving the principles of FDR behind after his passing. After Reagan, they just jettisoned the whole thing and decided to go neo-liberal with their positions. The Overton window kept sliding to the right and now we don't have a genuinely progressive party in this country no matter how much the GOP likes to say it. The Democratic platform is center-right on the global ideological spectrum, though arguments could be made for center. It is definitely not a left-of-center party. But, because of our current system whereby moneyed interests have free reign to influence officials and elected officials get to pretty much choose their constituents through the gerrymandering of elections that only allow a two-party system, well, we're ******.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-20-2024, 11:01 AM)samhain Wrote: All accurate, but I think defaulting to the left to save unions is a dicey proposition.  

Did you not see the attempt of these GOP governors? Do you remember the right-to-work push in GOP led states to try and squash our unions?

It’s clear as day who you should default to if you care about unions.

You’re just throwing out some bullshit talking points like the “the left abandoned workers long ago” with nothing to back it up.

[Dill]

(04-20-2024, 11:01 AM)samhain Wrote: All accurate, but I think defaulting to the left to save unions is a dicey proposition.  NAFTA was largely supported by dems, although calling them "left wing" is a bit of a stretch.  The dorks and gamers out there microdosing toad semen and jerking off to furry videos while simultaneously developing AI tech are also largely left-wing in terms of personal politics.  They will do more to hurt unions and working people in the long-term than any MAGA flag-sucker could ever hope to.  

The left abandoned workers long ago, and they seem to have little intention of coming back to "save" them.  They most certainly want their votes.  They will take photos with Shawn Fain to give the appearance of solidarity.  In reality, they are just as complicit in the destruction of the middle class as Old Saint Ronnie Ray-Gun.

There's a reason Trump came to power, as much of an abortion as his existence is.  I'll always contend that he'd still be making reality shows and having people ghost write books for him if this nation had any desire to keep it's middle class intact over the last 3 decades.  I hate the red hats with a passion, but I get why they are mad.  They merely chose the wrong messiah.  They're fools for choosing any messiah at all, much less one as inept and indifferent as Trump.    

Yo, contradictory message, Sam. 

This is what comes of people adopting expansive Fox definitions of "the left," to encompass neoliberal Dems and the Bidens and Clintons and the like, plus any old Trans athlete who wants restroom privileges and "Hollywood." 

That distortion is part of the reason Trump came to power and continues to threaten the working class with tax cuts for the rich.

Remember that old joke: A corporate CEO, a Union leader, and a worker are sitting around a break table upon which sits a plate with 12 cookies.
The CEO sweeps up 11 of them, and points to the last one as he whispers into the worker's ear "That union boss is trying to steal your cookie."

Well it's not really a joke, because THAT is how Trump came to power--blaming "the left."

 

[Dill]

(04-20-2024, 01:51 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't disagree at all. I mean, it took no time at all for the Democratic party to start leaving the principles of FDR behind after his passing. After Reagan, they just jettisoned the whole thing and decided to go neo-liberal with their positions. The Overton window kept sliding to the right and now we don't have a genuinely progressive party in this country no matter how much the GOP likes to say it. The Democratic platform is center-right on the global ideological spectrum, though arguments could be made for center. It is definitely not a left-of-center party. But, because of our current system whereby moneyed interests have free reign to influence officials and elected officials get to pretty much choose their constituents through the gerrymandering of elections that only allow a two-party system, well, we're ******.

Agree with the bolded, but that doesn't mean "the left" has abandoned workers.

It just means the Dems are not a left party. 

That millions misunderstand this is part of Trump's power.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Oh how exciting, another Trump bashing thread.

Democrats put Welfare, Immigrants and criminals ahead of the working class. That's the perception they give.
And they want to create all these new wonderful programs that cost money and claim they will tax the rich, but never do. So middle class pays for it.

[Belsnickel]

(04-20-2024, 09:06 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Oh how exciting, another Trump bashing thread.

Democrats put Welfare, Immigrants and criminals ahead of the working class. That's the perception they give.
And they want to create all these new wonderful programs that cost money and claim they will tax the rich, but never do. So middle class pays for it.

Most of us were actually critiquing the Democrats on how they abandoned the ideas of the New Deal in favor of neo-liberalism, explaining how it gave Trump the in that he had.

[GMDino]

(04-21-2024, 06:43 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Most of us were actually critiquing the Democrats on how they abandoned the ideas of the New Deal in favor of neo-liberalism, explaining how it gave Trump the in that he had.

I grew up in a Democrat home that voted all across the board.

My dad was in a Union until the early 80's when good old St. Ron came along and a group "investors" bought the company, broke the union, consolidated the plants and stole the pension money.

I was 12.

I grew up from that point being strongly anti-union because of how they just folded over and the leaders took what they could get and screwed the workers.

I have never been part of a union.  The closest I came was working in the media but I was small town and didn't have to and then I got out quickly.

Then I grew up. Now, at 54, I believe (and have believed for a long time) we must have strong unions to push back against 45+ years of Reaganomics destroying everything but the upper class.  The examples that I personally know of where non-union employees are treated well vs the places where they are treated as little better than slaves fortunate to have been picked to work is too overwhelming for me personally to feel any other way.

So did the Democrats desert the unions and me?  I don't know.  All I know is in my life one side as at a minimum given lip service to them and the other has bashed them as anti-american...somehow.

[*michaelsean*]

What exactly did Reagan do outside of PATCO? It was an illegal strike, and even if it wasn’t, you risk getting fired if you don’t show up to work. It shouldn’t be any different if you belong to a union. There should be no special protections afforded union workers. Was it more than PATCO? I understand he was not a union supporter by the time he became president, but what did he do?

[Belsnickel]

(04-22-2024, 06:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: What exactly did Reagan do outside of PATCO? It was an illegal strike, and even if it wasn’t, you risk getting fired if you don’t show up to work. It shouldn’t be any different if you belong to a union. There should be no special protections afforded union workers. Was it more than PATCO? I understand he was not a union supporter by the time he became president, but what did he do?

It isn't about what Reagan did. The use of Reagan as the point in the timeline is just about a marker. His popularity with his economic messaging gave the Democrats the reason and opportunity to get rid of the more progressive stylings that they had been known for and moved to the right on economic issues.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-20-2024, 11:01 AM)samhain Wrote: All accurate, but I think defaulting to the left to save unions is a dicey proposition.  NAFTA was largely supported by dems, although calling them "left wing" is a bit of a stretch.  The dorks and gamers out there microdosing toad semen and jerking off to furry videos while simultaneously developing AI tech are also largely left-wing in terms of personal politics.  They will do more to hurt unions and working people in the long-term than any MAGA flag-sucker could ever hope to.  

What?? What "benefit" do they seek to gain from such a bizarre ingestion? Do they somehow feel like it will allow them to "game" for days on end, without the need of sleep or sustenance?

[Luvnit2]

Unions had a purpose, 30 years ago. The workers had no protection, but now have many government organizations to ensure workers are treated fairly.

The great thing about choice is a bad employer will be penalized by losing great employees. Those employees are not forced to pay for union protection many do not want or need.

As for the plant in Tennessee, maybe the governor and others are correct, a union will not only help those workers, but could cost them jobs down the road.

Didn't a major union come out in support of Trump?

The real question becomes again, were union workers better off financially under Trump or under Biden? Did union workers get raises and benefits that outpaced inflation. If they did, they would be in the minority.

[GMDino]

BREAKING: North America’s Building Trades Unions just released new ad exposing Donald Trump as incompetent and a liar to American workers. Retweet to ensure everyone sees. pic.twitter.com/cvHqVybhxk

— Biden’s Wins (@BidensWins) April 24, 2024

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[*michaelsean*]

(04-24-2024, 07:48 PM)GMDino Wrote:

BREAKING: North America’s Building Trades Unions just released new ad exposing Donald Trump as incompetent and a liar to American workers. Retweet to ensure everyone sees. pic.twitter.com/cvHqVybhxk

— Biden’s Wins (@BidensWins) April 24, 2024

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Damn outside money in politics. Grrrrr

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-24-2024, 07:48 PM)GMDino Wrote:

BREAKING: North America’s Building Trades Unions just released new ad exposing Donald Trump as incompetent and a liar to American workers. Retweet to ensure everyone sees. pic.twitter.com/cvHqVybhxk

— Biden’s Wins (@BidensWins) April 24, 2024

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/politics/biden-building-trades-union-endorsement/index.html

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/united-steelworkers-union-endorses-joe-biden-for-president

The Old man can mumble, bumble, and stumble all he wants. He has been the part of a lot of big f’n deal legislation in his career. Almost always trying to help the working class. But the most important thing he has ever done is keeping the narcissistic conman traitor from winning a second term.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-23-2024, 06:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Unions had a purpose, 30 years ago. The workers had no protection, but now have many government organizations to ensure workers are treated fairly.

The great thing about choice is a bad employer will be penalized by losing great employees. Those employees are not forced to pay for union protection many do not want or need.

As for the plant in Tennessee, maybe the governor and others are correct, a union will not only help those workers, but could cost them jobs down the road.

Didn't a major union come out in support of Trump?

The real question becomes again, were union workers better off financially under Trump or under Biden? Did union workers get raises and benefits that outpaced inflation. If they did, they would be in the minority.

I always tell myself maybe one day I’ll be rich enough to vote Republican.

But still, even then, I’ve worked enough shitty jobs in my life I don’t think I’ll ever be able to turn my back on the working class people like a true Republican.

So you don’t think we need good union jobs to support a healthy middle class? Big business will just do the right thing?
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/

[*pally*]

(04-23-2024, 06:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Unions had a purpose, 30 years ago. The workers had no protection, but now have many government organizations to ensure workers are treated fairly.

The great thing about choice is a bad employer will be penalized by losing great employees. Those employees are not forced to pay for union protection many do not want or need.

As for the plant in Tennessee, maybe the governor and others are correct, a union will not only help those workers, but could cost them jobs down the road.

Didn't a major union come out in support of Trump?

The real question becomes again, were union workers better off financially under Trump or under Biden? Did union workers get raises and benefits that outpaced inflation. If they did, they would be in the minority.

right because business owners are known to always do what is right for their employees.  Seriously, labor laws are broken each and every day, and while individuals may have legal protections it can take years and lots of money to get justice when laws are broken.

Red states have been whittling away at worker protections for the last 30 years.  Child labor laws are being gutted. In some states now, employers cannot even be mandated to provide water breaks for people working outdoors in extreme heat.

There are reasons that companies like Amazon and Starbucks are facing unionization efforts.  There are reasons that a Tenneessee Volkswagon plant just voted to unionize in one of the most labor-unfriendly states in the country.  I guarantee you that those reasons exists because they aren't treated right by their employers