Who do you believe?

[fredtoast]

Do you believe Russia hacked the DNC and was behind the release of information leading up to the 2016 election.

Or do you believe that the Democrats released damaging information about their own candidate in a failed attempt to frame Donald Trump on charges of collusion with Russia?

The reason I am asking is that Trump's comments to Ukraine President Zalensky about Crowd strike and "the server" show that he still believes the Russians are innocent and the US intelligence agencies are the ones who are crooked.

[Yojimbo]

Caveat: Not enough to change the outcome and not any different than what our government does in our name to other countries.

[Belsnickel]

It was absolutely Russia.

The intelligence community lives and dies with the Hatch Act. Every individual has personal beliefs, that can't be denied, but the intelligence professionals go into work to protect the interests of the United States. They don't get political on the job. They care about the law and national security and that required putting aside the partisanship that surrounds them in NoVA/DC/Maryland. It disheartens me, but does not surprise me, that we have reached the point where such a large number of people view our own government in this way. The political cultures in this country have been shifting in such a way that they view engagement in government as either a tool for self-interest or an arena for the elite to establish their powers. Gone are the days when there is respect for the men and women that work in public service in areas other than the military or law enforcement (which is ironic given that these are the groups that would be the ones called upon to carry out the most harsh directives were a government to make authoritarian moves).

[Bengalzona]

(10-02-2019, 09:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you believe Russia hacked the DNC and was behind the release of information leading up to the 2016 election.

Or do you believe that the Democrats released damaging information about their own candidate in a failed attempt to frame Donald Trump on charges of collusion with Russia?

The reason I am asking is that Trump's comments to Ukraine President Zalensky about Crowd strike and "the server" show that he still believes the Russians are innocent and the US intelligence agencies are the ones who are crooked.

The mere fact that Trump solicited a foreign government to investigate American citizens rather than going through American agencies such as the FBI demonstrates his lack of trust for U.S. intelligence agencies (although I do suspect the admin may have went through those agencies first and turned away when they "didn't get the answers they wanted").

It should also tell people that this admin feels incapable of winning an election without 'getting the dirt' on their opposition... and that speaks volumes, IMO.

[Goalpost]

Yes. I think Russia interfered and yes I think our agencies showed bias.

[Belsnickel]

(10-02-2019, 11:12 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Yes. I think Russia interfered and yes I think our agencies showed bias.

Indeed they did, by exposing the investigation into Clinton before the election and not the one into Trump's campaign which resulted in helping to push the election towards Trump.

[CJD]

I'm relatively certain that the Mueller report decisively concluded that Russia interfered.

It just didn't go so far as to say the Trump campaign sought their aid or "colluded" with them for their benefit.

EDIT: Yea. It did decisively conclude that Russia interfered.

Quote:The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and
systematic fashion. Evidence of Russian government operations began to surface in mid-2016.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/04/18/mueller-report-searchable.pdf

[fredtoast]

From the number of "speaking points" I am getting I can see some of you are missing my point.

Our President believes Putin over our own intelligence agencies. He thinks Russia is innocent. That is why he is trying to get "the server" that he thinks Crowdstrike has hidden in Ukrain.

Maybe I need to make a poll to see if anyone really cares that Trump believes Putin over our own intelligence agencies.

[fredtoast]

(10-02-2019, 11:13 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Indeed they did, by exposing the investigation into Clinton before the election and not the one into Trump's campaign which resulted in helping to push the election towards Trump.

This.

That BS public announcement about Huma Abedin's computer came at the perfect time to push Trump over the line.  Trump loved his fellow Republican James Comey back then.

[Millhouse]

I voted yes. And Russia could have interfered back in 2012 to help Obama for all we know too.

PS.. The one vote for innocence ... Mr. Putin, you here? Welcome to the site!

[*bfine32*]

Which people have the hardest time letting 2016 go and focusing in 2020:

a. Hillary
b. Trump
c. Democrats
d. Republicans
e. American people
f. None of the above

[ballsofsteel]

(10-02-2019, 11:21 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'm relatively certain that the Mueller report decisively concluded that Russia interfered.

It just didn't go so far as to say the Trump campaign sought their aid or "colluded" with them for their benefit.

EDIT: Yea. It did decisively conclude that Russia interfered.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/04/18/mueller-report-searchable.pdf

Didn't Trump jr. and Jared meet with the Russians in the Trump tower? Its my understanding that they tried to get dirt on Hillary but were to stupid and incompetent to get it done.

[ballsofsteel]

(10-02-2019, 05:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Which people have the hardest time letting 2016 go and focusing in 2020:

a. Hillary
b. Trump
c. Democrats
d. Republicans
e. American people
f. None of the above

g. bfine32

[Benton]

(10-02-2019, 05:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Which people have the hardest time letting 2016 go and focusing in 2020:

a. Hillary
b. Trump
c. Democrats
d. Republicans
e. American people
f. None of the above

B

I've heard him talk more a out how he was negatively treated for what he did heading into 2016 than I've heard him comment on what he plans to do with four more years.

[6andcounting]

Russia interfered - as proven by the Mueller report.

The Mueller report also concluded no American was part of Russia's effort to interfere.

We also know FISA warrants were used against Trump and that members of the FBI were using their power to try to stop Trump's presidency.


Side note : Search "Trump fisa" on Google and "Trump fisa" on Duck Duck Go and tell me Google hasn't completed scrubbed their results.

[*bfine32*]

(10-02-2019, 06:18 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: g. bfine32

This is correct bfine is a G, some even call him an OG. But that's not really answering the question posed

(10-02-2019, 07:10 PM)Benton Wrote: B

I've heard him talk more a out how he was negatively treated for what he did heading into 2016 than I've heard him comment on what he plans to do with four more years.

This is quite possibly the correct answer. Unsure I've ever seen such a "sore winner". But I'm not sure I'm ready to say he's having the hardest time letting it go. For instance I listened Hills getting interviewed on NPR the other day and she called Trump an illegitimate President and stated she actually beat him at a time when there had been more women in space than had ran for President. Seems she's having a little problem with letting it go. But gun to head and I had to make a choice I'm going with C. B might be my second choice, 

[Belsnickel]

(10-02-2019, 07:26 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Russia interfered - as proven by the Mueller report.

The Mueller report also concluded no American was part of Russia's effort to interfere.

We also know FISA warrants were used against Trump and that members of the FBI were using their power to try to stop Trump's presidency.


Side note : Search "Trump fisa" on Google and "Trump fisa" on Duck Duck Go and tell me Google hasn't completed scrubbed their results.

Um...what?

[GMDino]

(10-02-2019, 08:31 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Um...what?

[*bfine32*]

(10-02-2019, 08:31 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Um...what?

I'm going to go far out on a thin limb and wildly guess he's talking about comments made by Peter Strzok. 

[Belsnickel]

(10-02-2019, 08:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm going to go far out on a thin limb and wildly guess he's talking about comments made by Peter Strzok. 

That was what I was assuming, but I just wanted to check.